# Why are '"wire transfers" so expensive in the USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 8, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321 "2015-08-08T15:34:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/21 "2015-08-08T21:34:45Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I’m assuming that you don’t believe the manager made such a statement because it was pre- ACA - but even in the 80s and 90s it was common for businesses that employed both full and part-time staff ( banks, retail stores, etc) to provide various benefits ( everything from health insurance to vacation or sick days) only to those employees who regularly worked more than a specified number of hours per week, so that full-time tellers/cashiers working 35-40 hours a week got benefits but those working 15-20 hours a week did not. No, I don’t believe the manager made the statement at all. Well, he _may_ have apologized for being short-staffed, but he certainly did not tell a customer that they were short-staffed to avoid paying employee benefits. It never happened. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/22 "2015-08-08T21:36:46Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > - > - Yes, I know “ATM machine” may seem redundant. Start a Pit thread if you need to indulge in such prescriptivist twaddle. Do you need a personal PIN number there too? ---
**Author:** ![TallTrees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TallTrees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TallTrees)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/23 "2015-08-08T22:54:53Z")
US banks and the services they offer lag behind much of the rest of the world. It’s not new. Over 25 years ago, living in Europe, I could pay all monthly bills with a transfer. (The bills came in the form of a transfer form that could be sent to the bank for payment. Or, you could have a standing order “Pay my utility bill every month”, up to a max amount). Auto pay has come along in the US, but it was decades later than elsewhere. Same was true of ATMs. I could write checks in any currency. I had a check guarantee card at the time that was accepted in any business, in any country, up to the equivalent of about $500. (the old Eurocheque system, it was wound down about 10 years ago). At the time here in the US, I couldn’t write a check in a neighboring town for a $15 purchase. I could pay any person or any business with a transfer I initiated myself. No charge. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/24 "2015-08-08T23:16:59Z")
US banks had auto bill pay a while back. I know because they screwed it up the first time they did it for my father. But in general US banks had to be dragged kicking and screaming into a lot of stuff. Even now they won’t transfer money over the weekend or on a holiday. I guess they were forced to have credit/debit cards work every day since it would be a joke if they only worked M-F. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/25 "2015-08-08T23:17:17Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > Just to clarify, the government here will be state specific. I am not sure which state **suranyi** lives in, but here in Washington they accept credit and debit cards just fine. California. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/26 "2015-08-08T23:55:00Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > most US banks now have a system within online banking that allows transfers to another bank for free. But this usually takes a number of business days. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/27 "2015-08-08T23:57:14Z")
for me popmoney is next day transfer for amounts under $500. above that it’s 3 days. I am pretty sure the bank sets those parameters. Some banks may do all transfers next day. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/28 "2015-08-09T00:00:51Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > And this can be strangely specific as well - some government entities in my state/city pass on the processing fee if you pay by debit or credit card but have no fee for an electronic check. They must get some special terms from their credit card processors, because every agreement I signed with CC companies always has a clause that says you cannot tack on fees for using a credit card. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/29 "2015-08-09T00:04:14Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I use popmoney as well. It’s tied into my online banking and bill pay system. Can you pay pretty much any kind of bill, or any individual, with popmoney? And if so, how does the transfer process work? I was recently infuriated to learn that, in many cases, my bank’s online bill payment system mails the payee a paper check drawn on my own account, and I have to wait for it to clear. What I’d always assumed was that the funds would be taken out of my account at the very beginning of the process and placed in a disbursement account, so the effect would be the same as buying a cashier’s check or money order. What makes the online payment system such a joke is the fact that with paper-check payees, my own check will almost always reach the payee and be cashed sooner than if I use the bank’s system, and sometimes this is also true for supposedly electronic payees too. We’ve given up using the electronic system for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/30 "2015-08-09T00:40:59Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > US banks had auto bill pay a while back. I know because they screwed it up the first time they did it for my father. U.S. banks usually offer online bill pay, but that doesn’t mean the payment is actually made electronically. The bank will often print and mail a paper check to the payee. Oddly, the bank will sometimes do this even when the payee will let you set up actual electronic payments through its own web site. The bank will do this even when the payee is ALSO a bank with customers all over the country [:rolleyes:] ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/31 "2015-08-09T01:09:28Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They must get some special terms from their credit card processors, because every agreement I signed with CC companies always has a clause that says you cannot tack on fees for using a credit card. Starting sometime in 2013, Mastercard and Visa agreed to allow surcharges to their credit cards as part of a legal settlement. (although merchants can’t impose a surcharge if state law prohibits it ) But even before that , the credit card issuers allowed government entities to pass on the fees- government agencies can’t build the costs of accepting credit cards into payments the way retailers can. After reading [this](http://americancityandcounty.com/administration/finance/government-credit-card-fee-rules-200909), I now understand “convenience fees”. I never could understand how those were allowed but not surcharges on other sales. > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Can you pay pretty much any kind of bill, or any individual, with popmoney? And if so, how does the transfer process work? Popmoney uses the email address or mobile number or the recipients actual bank account info. If you use the first two methods , the recipient is notified that you have sent them money and then gives Popmoney the account info for the account they want the funds deposited into. > [@](#): > > I was recently infuriated to learn that, in many cases, my bank’s online bill payment system mails the payee a paper check drawn on my own account, and I have to wait for it to clear. What I’d always assumed was that the funds would be taken out of my account at the very beginning of the process and placed in a disbursement account, so the effect would be the same as buying a cashier’s check or money order.What makes the online payment system such a joke is the fact that with paper-check payees, my own check will almost always reach the payee and be cashed sooner than if I use the bank’s system, and sometimes this is also true for supposedly electronic payees too. We’ve given up using the electronic system for that reason. I’ve found that paying utilities, credit cards and other loans and insurance companies result in an electronic transfer. Basically, if my bank has the recipient listed as a payee in the system , it’s an electronic transfer. If I have to provide the name and address of the recipient, it’s a paper check. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/32 "2015-08-09T01:10:26Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The branch manager did not tell you anything of the sort. Cite? The branch manager (or operations officer IIRC) was obviously exasperated with working conditions at her bank. Yes, she probably did not explicitly mention _why_ her bank chose to use part-time tellers, but the reason was common knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/33 "2015-08-09T03:02:30Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They must get some special terms from their credit card processors, because every agreement I signed with CC companies always has a clause that says you cannot tack on fees for using a credit card. Knowing you, you’ll love this: They do have special terms. The government carved out an exception for itself so it wouldn’t have to pay any credit card processing fees. Those are all passed to the consumer in the form of extra fees. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/34 "2015-08-09T03:37:40Z")
Just paid a driver’s license fee in Hawaii (50 clams) with a credit card and was charged an extra $1.18 for the privilege. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/35 "2015-08-09T04:01:55Z")
Before this goes too far, let me remind everyone that in the United States, the Durbin Amendment to the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act of 2010 does not allow credit card companies to prohibit cash discounts. Any clause in your merchant agreement to the contrary is unenforceable. [15 U.S. Code § 1693o-2(b)(2)](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1693o-2) > [@](#): > > (2) Limitation on restrictions on offering discounts for use of a form of payment > (A) In general > A payment card network shall not, directly or through any agent, processor, or licensed member of the network, by contract, requirement, condition, penalty, or otherwise, inhibit the ability of any person to provide a discount or in-kind incentive for payment by the use of cash, checks, debit cards, or credit cards … ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/36 "2015-08-09T09:05:51Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > U.S. banks usually offer online bill pay, but that doesn’t mean the payment is actually made electronically. The bank will often print and mail a paper check to the payee. Oddly, the bank will sometimes do this even when the payee will let you set up actual electronic payments through its own web site. The bank will do this even when the payee is ALSO a bank with customers all over the country [:rolleyes:] My dad, who had his whole career in banking and the last 20 years or so in international banking software, told us about American presentations of banking technology like that, “electronic” transfers that consisted of scanning checks at one end and printing it at the other end. I’m 40, and I’ve never owned a check book, but in all fairness I did pay bills by snail mail giros for a few years before online banking took off here in Norway. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/37 "2015-08-09T09:37:02Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Cite? The branch manager (or operations officer IIRC) was obviously exasperated with working conditions at her bank. **Yes, she probably did not explicitly mention _why_ her bank chose to use part-time tellers, but the reason was common knowledge.** Isn’t the bolded part his cite? Is there any reason other than history and “because they can” that _wire transfers_ are so expensive? Most of our clients (giant international aid agencies) pay exclusively by wire. Not ACH, not direct deposit–only wire. Most banks charge an insane $14-$20 per incoming transfer, which can really add up. We shopped around and finally found one that has free incoming wires (but they still charge a lot for outgoing). But that’s a higher end account (high balance or we face a high monthly fee) and was unusual among both large and small banks. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/38 "2015-08-09T09:59:57Z")
> [@naita](#): > > I’m 40, and I’ve never owned a check book, but in all fairness I did pay bills by snail mail giros for a few years before online banking took off here in Norway. I suspect it would be a lot easier to send money electronically in the US if we’d had giros. We just never really had the concept of ordinary people _sending_ money to another person or entity’s bank account on a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/39 "2015-08-09T12:45:31Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > Before this goes too far, let me remind everyone that in the United States, the Durbin Amendment to the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act of 2010 does not allow credit card companies to prohibit cash discounts. Any clause in your merchant agreement to the contrary is unenforceable. > [15 U.S. Code § 1693o-2(b)(2)](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1693o-2) Which is not quite the same thing as prohibiting the CC networks from prohibiting the merchants from charging consumers a “convenience fee” for using a CC/DC. That network prohibition, with the exceptions noted by others above, is still both legal and common. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_zippermeyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@dr\_zippermeyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dr_zippermeyer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321/40 "2015-08-09T14:03:03Z")
I suppose things are going to change soon. Banks have to accept faster and cheaper transfers or cry and accept them. Companies like TransferWise are handling a growing chunk of money transfers. Either these new services handle eventually most of the transfers or banks do something about it. Many banks seem to be interested about a payment protocol created by Ripple Labs. It allows instant transfers for a nominal fee. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-wire-transfers-so-expensive-in-the-usa/727321.md?page=3)