# Why are women cruel? Or am I naive? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2001, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676 "2001-10-16T06:16:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ModernRonin2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@ModernRonin2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernRonin2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/21 "2001-10-16T18:29:54Z")
I’m kidding. RUN. Run away from this girl (physically and emotionally) as fast as you possibly can. Maybe she’s confused, maybe she’s indecisive, maybe she can’t handle only having one boyfriend at a time (i’ve known several girls like that, especially at that age), maybe she’s just evil. I don’t know. But the whys don’t matter a damn bit. **RUN**. Run away as fast as your legs can carry you. You do NOT need this kind of pain. And that’s all this girl is giving you. -Ben ---
**Author:** ![ModernRonin2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@ModernRonin2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ModernRonin2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/22 "2001-10-16T18:37:57Z")
“I’m NOT kidding.” is what that first line should read. -Ben ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/23 "2001-10-16T20:02:27Z")
Awww, **Clarissa** , we’re not ignoring you. Welcome to the SDMB! If all of your posts are as full of wisdom as the last, you will fit in here very well. [b}Pathros\*\*, heed Clarissa’s advice. If you try to hold on too tightly, the object of your affection will slip through your fingers. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/24 "2001-10-16T20:04:36Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by betenoir \* > \*\* For us herosexuals …_\* Does this have anything to do with a fetish for skin tight, brightly coloured spandex? ---
**Author:** ![Pathros\_1983](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@Pathros\_1983](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pathros_1983)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/25 "2001-10-16T20:23:14Z")
OK so Ive decided to not give her much concern anymore, but I will not treat her coldly. I still have a few querrys about relationships in general, though. I will admit to one thing, that I know and knew when I was dating this girl. I CANT SEE NON VERBAL SIGNS. I really can’t. I’ve tried. REALLY tried. I dont understand why but when it comes to reading people I always get it wrong. There are times I can tell a sign is being given, but I always misinterpret it. Sometimes those signs are given by two different people, same sign, different meanings. IS there a class I can take? Im not joking here. I dont want to have to go through a dozen relationships just so that I can “learn” and some girl gets hurt in the process. Thats not fair to her at all. As for not holding on too tight…what do I do to keep her then? Just give myself selflessly to her? Thanks for all of your posts, they’ve been a HUGE help. I still have more questions, but can’t remember any of them… stupid server wiped my last post. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/26 "2001-10-16T20:27:53Z")
Why are women cruel? Sam Kinison would say “Because they have all the pussy!” ---
**Author:** ![Dirty\_Earthworm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dirty\_Earthworm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dirty_Earthworm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2001, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/27 "2001-10-17T00:25:52Z")
I feel your pain, man. I really do. But greener pastures are ahead. If you two are currently together, do the smart thing and dump her sorry ass. I was blinded by “love” for too long myself, but when I finally let go I found someone I enjoy being with who doesn’t play games with my head or my heart. (or hasn’t yet - the relationship is still young.) Women in general are not evil, but love, on the other hand, sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2001, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/28 "2001-10-17T00:58:49Z")
**Pathros** , here’s my perspective. My fiance and I trust each other completely, and because he trusts me, and I love him, I won’t do things that may hurt him. He’s not a jealous man, and probably wouldn’t care if I hung around with old boyfriends, but I don’t do that because it might cause conflict for us (and because I love him, and have no interest in anyone else). Your ex-girlfriend was not so careful with you; she’s young, too (I assume), and also inexperienced, so I would give her the benefit of the doubt as to her suspected cruelty, but as you date older women, they should be more careful of you if they truly care about you. **Disclaimer:** Women and men both have a responsibility not to do things that they think might hurt their partner. Pathological jealousy, however, is an abusive behaviour, and nobody should put up with it by pussy-footing around the other person’s unreasonable demands (in other words, you should end the relationship). ---
**Author:** ![BigGiantHead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b4bc9f/32.png) [@BigGiantHead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigGiantHead)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2001, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/29 "2001-10-17T01:30:10Z")
\*\* Excellent information being given in here. Spooje, techchick, Clarissa, and Holly especially - kudos. A very good relationship primer. And Pathros, additional congratulations to you on approaching what remains before you with eyes open. Wish I’d had a source of knowledge like this (and the guts to use it) when I was in your shoes. As far as your additional queries: you’re right, the non-verbal signs are a tremendous pain. It’s good that you recognize your own difficulty with them; I think blind assumption that you understood everything that was going on would be vastly more dangerous. One thing you obviously also understand, but may not be giving yourself credit for - the signs ARE DIFFERENT from person to person, as are their reasons for giving them. Unfortunately, for that reason there are no bright-line, go/no-go thumbrules to follow. I’m sure if you looked at even one shelf of the Self-Help section of your local B&N, you’d find fifty volumes of information on deciphering them - much of it contradictory. That’s why, frequently, you have to go through those dozen learning relationships (unless you’re lucky enough to hit the karmic jackpot early on!). But don’t fret; give yourself some credit and some slack: those dozen ladies will likely be just as out of it as you. For every thing you do that’s just “not fair” to them, they’ll do one in return. But you’ll be helping each other to learn the signs. As long as you act without malice - and from what I’m reading here, I think it unlikely of you - no one can reasonably blame you. Some of them will doubtless try, but it won’t be reasonable. So, what should you do as regards this one lady? Well, you’ve taken the right direction with your decision to be non-compulsive but compassionate. Essentially, my humble recommendation is to _do what makes you feel right._ If giving selflessly does it for you, then good. Just quit it once you notice you’re getting little “selfless giving” in return and before it makes you all sour and crazy inside. Don’t hold on too tight, there’s no payoff in it. If she wants to roam, all the chains in the world won’t keep her, but they will piss her off. One day at a time, my friend. You’re well on your way to being one hell of a gentle man. - Dave ---
**Author:** ![Clarissa\_xx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Clarissa\_xx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarissa_xx)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2001, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/30 "2001-10-17T17:53:13Z")
Thanks spoke- and BigGiantHead! Pathros, keep us updated, ok? ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2001, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/31 "2001-10-17T18:33:15Z")
She’s pretty cruel although I wouldn’t say all women are. You are pretty darn naive, too. That’ll change, I hope. ---
**Author:** ![Pathros\_1983](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@Pathros\_1983](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pathros_1983)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2001, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/32 "2001-10-17T22:04:27Z")
I talked to her on the phone last night, and was kind, compassionate, but didnt go to the part as to show im still “into her.” I tried to not show either side. The question came up about how we feel about each other. Her response, was, “I don’t know! I havent seen you in three months, so I don’t know how things would be.” She dates other guys, though, so the whole being caught up on her is over. Whew. Oh and by dating other guys I dont mean friend in other state who she used to know. I wont go any further because thats probably a blatant showing of how she is trying to drop it with me. Well, after the phone call she emailed me her schedule so as I can call her more often when shes around. She ended it with how much she missed me, and how she loved me. Kinda confusing, but I guess I will just give it time. She plans on going to school in the Spring and will drop by to see me, or so she says. Don’t know what to think of things, but im not caught up, or expecting anything out of it. Thanks for your advice and help dopers! ---
**Author:** ![Clarissa\_xx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Clarissa\_xx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarissa_xx)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/33 "2001-10-18T13:58:18Z")
She emailed you her schedule so you could call her? Oh, how nice and thoughtful of her!!! I’m kidding. See, she wants you to put in all the effort, BUT she did email you her schedule, said she loved and missed you. There is some interest on her part here. I would not call her often and see if she calls you wondering why your not calling. After some time, you may want to drop her a call but again be upbeat and talk about many things going on in your life but keep it general and keep her guessing since she will wonder what’s going on. Appear to have a very interesting life but don’t let her in on the details. This will peak her interest. What your goal here is to get her to start putting some energy into the relationship instead of it all being you. Once she starts doing this you have a chance. Don’t give up on her because she isn’t acting like the movies or novels. Life isn’t like that. However, don’t put your heart on the line either. If she starts showing interest then you can start to have hope. In the mean time, ask others out!!! Clarissa ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/34 "2001-10-18T15:15:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pathros\_1983 \* > So I was somewhat upset, but trusted her. Then, I came across a letter from him, to her, about her trip. He outlined how excited he was to see her, blah blah, and she replied with the same, and how she couldnt wait to see him. I confronted her with this. It was pretty nasty. She admited what she said was misleading but that I wasnt really meant to see it anyways, and shouldnt have been a pry. She then told me “how can I trust you, if you can’t trust me?” > [@](#): > > Now its about the end of summer and we are talking. I had since then come across more letters in which she tells this guy how much she misses him, and he asks her “since when as someone told you that you were beautiful?” > [@](#): > > In August I left for college, and asked her to write me a letter about how much she loved me, and what she thought about me (actually 2 letters) and how things are different between her and me, and her and him. She actually brought up the idea, and had no problem with it. She has yet to send me either letter. > [@](#): > > That was the begining of August, I have gotten no letters, but only a few emails and TWO phone calls. This didnt bother me as much, because she had moved cities to help her dad out who was starting a new business, and it was long distance. That didnt stop her before with me or the other guy, but maybe it is now. after all they just moved. She said she was working a lot. > [@](#): > > I have connections, im not as stupid as you think. You’ve been calling him every day, if not every other day. You email him more than me, and even though its sadistic, I have friends who told me that you send him letters. Yet you still have no feelings for him, huh? WHAT THE HELL? If I was hearing this from **her** , I’d be telling her, “Run, don’t walk, away from this guy.” I mean…going through her mail (and I don’t _care_ that she let you read other mail of hers; if she didn’t tell you to read _that_ letter, then it was still privileged), spying on her through friends, controlling behavior (keeping the heat on her to write a letter that should come from the heart, if at all)…sheesh. You sound young, so I’m hoping you’ll grow out of this. (Hell, **I** had a bit of this in me when I was at the end of my teens, and I got better, thank goodness. So it’s possible.) Love can be rough territory, no doubt about it. But you can’t make someone love you, and you can’t even make someone sort out their feelings any faster than they’re going to be able to do so anyway. Sometimes people just aren’t going to _know_ how they feel, doggonit, and there ain’t a damned thing you can do about _that_ end of it, if it’s the other person who’s confused. You can only choose whether to continue dating her when the obvious signs of ambivalence are there, or back off. There are risks either way, and love sometimes just sucks. But when it works out, it can be pretty fantastic, which is why we keep picking ourselves off the floor and trying again. But part of loving is giving the other person enough room, sometimes, to figure themselves out. You can’t hold on by force to that which doesn’t even exist when it’s not freely given. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676/35 "2001-10-18T15:52:07Z")
She sounds like one of those manipulative, deceitful, in-it-for-herself types. You’re better off without her, even if you’re not feeling that at the moment. And you shouldn’t have snooped around her mail or email. I understand why you did it, but it’s wrong. As someone who has burned by this type more than once in my illustrious career, my best advice to you would be to learn to trust your gut. It’s rarely wrong on these kinds of things. You don’t need to check their letters. For example: > [@](#): > > \*\*Then in about the end of June, she went back to the state that she used to live in to see the guy she used to like, but only b/c he was paying for it, and b/c he was still a good friend. \*\* Ding-ding-ding-ding! Red flag! Red flag! Warning! Warning! Danger, Will Robinson! [“You gotta be cruel to be kind.”](http://www.lyricsengine.com/cgi-bin/main.pl/artistid.452/an.Letters_To_Cleo/albumid.0/songid.1940/sn.Cruel_To_Be_Kind/lyrics.html) - Nick Lowe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-women-cruel-or-am-i-naive/87676.md?page=1)