# Why are you NOT an organ donor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2002, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786 "2002-04-26T15:21:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/21 "2002-04-26T20:44:38Z")
Calm down, Surreal. You’re asking me to prove that your little paranoid fantasy ISN’T true, and that’s the first chapter and verse of the Kook Handbook. You want to talk about evidence? Give ME evidence that doctors don’t give as much care to organ donors. You made the claim, you back it up. I don’t have to prove your claim isn’t true, you have to prove it is. If you don’t want to be an organ donor, fine, don’t. But don’t try to support this decision with all kinds of bizarre ravings about vampiric doctors waiting to silence your beating heart so they can implant it in someone else, okay? That way lies madness. Let me guess…you oppose fluoride in the drinking water as well. ---
**Author:** ![arachnidlove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@arachnidlove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arachnidlove)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/22 "2002-04-26T20:48:02Z")
I don’t donate because I dont’ think I have any healthy organs to donate. I smoke, am overweight,and drink like its the end of the world. I also do a variety of drugs. Am I selfish? Yes. But I was under the impression that this is MY body and I can do whatever the hell I want with it. ~/X(…)/X\ ---
**Author:** ![tygre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@tygre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tygre)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/23 "2002-04-26T20:52:37Z")
I am an organ donor. Hell, if I’m dead, they can take anything they want. I’m sure not going to be needing it! Question for those of you who oppose organ donation – if you or a loved one needed a transplant, what would you do? I am really curious to see what the answers on this are… ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/24 "2002-04-26T20:55:34Z")
Example- Do you think people that DO have an airbag in their car drive differently than the people that DO NOT? They cause MORE accidents, because somewhere in the back of their minds they are thinking ‘Well, if I _do_ get into an accident, this here airbag is going to protect me. I don’t really have to be all that careful’. The same is true for doctors. They might put 99.9% effort into someone who IS NOT a donor, but maybe 95% effort into someone who IS a donor, because the downside is less. They may not even be conscious of this while it’s happening. My opinions of fluoridation have nothing to do with this conversation. ---
**Author:** ![kumaraka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e68b1a/32.png) [@kumaraka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kumaraka)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/25 "2002-04-26T20:58:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Surreal \* > \*\ ***Legomancer** -“_Are you SURE you aren’t an organ donor? You sure your brain’s still in there?_” > > It amazes me just how lacking in common sense, despite being well-read or well-educated, some people are on these boards. Do you really think that doctors and EMT’s are some sort of DEITIES, who do not display the human characteristic of BIAS in there everyday work? > > Somebody show me studies that PROVE doctors have just as much success with their black patients as with their white patients. Show me studies that PROVE doctors perform just as well with organ donors as the do with non-donors. \*\* As a premed student, I tend to believe that while OF COURSE doctors are not immune to bias, that the degree of bias is not as large as one would think. However, as far as donor issues go, I’d say that a bias might exist. This is because in order to harvest a body, you have to catch it while it’s in that limbo between the person’s brain dying and the organs becoming unsalvageable, which in some cases can last a few dozen minutes. YOu have to act FAST to save the organs, and that urgency can cause a bias that even the most well meaning physician might not beable to avoid. I think people on this board are rather excessively caustic, as a side note. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/26 "2002-04-26T22:02:55Z")
im going to go out on a limb with Surreal, here, and agree with him/her/it that there is probably more bias “out there” than we really want to know about. Real life is not an episode of “Law and Order” where every crime gets unraveled and the guilty punished. i have no difficulty in believing doctors, lawyers and cops let thier own personal, human bias’ affect the performance of thier duties. here is one reason: my brother-in-law was a real shady, fringe-of-society element. in and out of trouble with the law his whole life. he was found dead in a warehouse with a bullet in his back. he was in there welding. the official cause of death was ruled “accidental shooting” (meaning he accidentally shoot _himself_!). Now, anybody with half a brain could look at the scene and make the obvious call of murder. I truly believe the cops just figured “one less scumbag!” and slamed the books shut. here is another reason: during my fathers cancer treatment, we spent alot of time in the hospital and saw many of the same people. the doctors were always “real confident of a breakthrough any time soon!” as long as the patient had money. when someones money ran out, the story changed to “it seems it has run its course, and nothing left to try”. My dad made it (he had lots of money) but he saw alot of others in his ward/wing/whatever not survive, coincedently about the time the insurance benefits dried up. really a sad time for my dad, and he admitted to me that he viewed the medical profession differently from then on. ---
**Author:** ![dead0man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@dead0man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dead0man)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/27 "2002-04-26T22:21:08Z")
I can’t, I also had hepatitus as a kid. dead0man ---
**Author:** ![RaCha\_ar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@RaCha\_ar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaCha_ar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/28 "2002-04-26T22:35:47Z")
**tygre** , if you want to ask about people who _oppose organ donation_, I would start a new thread. I don’t think anyone here has actually voiced an opinion against organ donation, period. I am not, by any means, opposed to the idea, at all. It is not right _for me_. How would I feel if one of my family members – or, heaven forbid, myself – needed a transplant? I would be glad that there are people more comfortable with these things than I am. I feel very strangely about it, but that doesn’t mean I think that everyone should feel the same way. I don’t like the idea of being cut up and redistributed, dead or not. It makes me think of myself as so much inventory. I would rather think of myself as one human being, not one heart, two lungs, two kidneys, a liver, etc. ---
**Author:** ![kumaraka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e68b1a/32.png) [@kumaraka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kumaraka)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/29 "2002-04-26T23:12:15Z")
gatopescado - That’s quite sad. Thanks for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/30 "2002-04-26T23:45:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Surreal \* > \*\*Example- Do you think people that DO have an airbag in their car drive differently than the people that DO NOT? \*\* No, I don’t. I can’t imagine that there are very many that do. \*\* > [@](#): > > The same is true for doctors. They might put 99.9% effort into someone who IS NOT a donor, but maybe 95% effort into someone who IS a donor, because the downside is less. They may not even be conscious of this while it’s happening. \*\* Doctors don’t work in a vacuum. Don’t you think that someone else might notice Dr. Pulldeplug sandbagging? I don’t think that, even if you had Dr. Klansmanne operating, he’d want to risk his profession by short-suturing someone. Or intentionally misprescribing. Or misdiagnosing on purpose. Whatever. The downside, btw, would be _much_ deeper for any doctor that didn’t perform to the best of his/her abilitiy…and got caught at it. I dunno. I see unbelievable things happen so often that the miraculous sometimes seems commonplace. I’m not the kind of person that sets people on a pedestal, but I have to admit that ER doctors in particular have my utmost respect. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/31 "2002-04-26T23:47:18Z")
s’all right. footnote: dad beat his cancer and lived a couples more years then was layed low within the time-frame of about 6 weeks by a melonoma (spelling?). seems he spent too much time in the sun. i still regularly drive his 1980 sporty convertable, but i never put the top down. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/32 "2002-04-26T23:58:12Z")
jarbabyj, I just wouldn’t want my family to have to think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Lord\_Ssarl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e57/32.png) [@Ice\_Lord\_Ssarl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Lord_Ssarl)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/33 "2002-04-27T00:22:27Z")
Well, I am one of SEVEN Australians under 18 who signed up for organ donation in the last year. Now consider the number of Australians who are waiting for organs to save their lives (easily several hundred thousand), and think again. Just let me repeat myself, just in case you missed it: SEVEN SEVEN SEVEN SEVEN! Out of 19 million people in the nation, and eliminating the adults… that’s like 1-2 in a million Australian minors. THAT IS TRAGIC. ORGAN DONATION happens AFTER you are DEAD. As in, you have no nerves. No feelings. Your organs will never help you again. And you’re looking me in the eye and telling me it’s ok for you to refuse donation because it’s icky? YOU ARE DISGUSTING. Heavy drinking made your organs useless has it? Well, are you dying? If not, you are at least one step above what the people on organ donation lists currently have. So Doctors will let you die for your organs eh? I WOULD LOVE to see you get one scrap of evidence to support that. And if we really must debate, I honestly think that an organ donation card would make you a good person in a Doctor’s eyes, falling into your “bank robber vs friend hit by car” theory. AND BESIDES, _HOW_ does bias due to bank robbery, race, sex, age relate IN ANY WAY to the topic, I really must know! And the religion thing: I am Christian, and have never heard of this. No decent religion would seriuosly consider an impact body more important than saving lives. And as for the whole “intact body to get into heaven thing” um… what about people who are beheaded? Mangled in car wrecks? Blown up? Crushed in avalanches? Burned alive? Beheaded? HECK, are you saying to me John the Baptist is in Hell because his head was removed? OF COURSE NOT! You are all mad, and I am asahmed of you. Get yourself an organ donor card, and pray for forgiveness. ---
**Author:** ![Tinkertoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f19dbf/32.png) [@Tinkertoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tinkertoy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/34 "2002-04-27T02:22:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Likewise, when the doctors _know_ you’re a donor, they will think to themselves ‘I’ll try to help, but if I don’t succeed, it will be alright because his organs will save others people’s lives’. Therfore they will be less motivate to perform well Why! WHY! **WHY?** The doctor who works on you in the Emergency Room does NOT get paid any thing for your organs. They are removed by a transplant team. The doctor does NOT get paid a finders fee. He/She only continues to get paid if you are kept ALIVE! Your organs cannot be given to his “friend down the hall”. They are controlled by an organ bank and the Emergency Room doctor has no say where they go. The doctors only stake in you is keeping you alive so your insurance keeps paying him/her. I know what an organ harvest is. My SO and I donated our daughters organs when she died. It kept part of her alive. Somewhere is a mother of three small children who has had 9 more years to watch them grow because of my daughters Kidney. a 45 year old man was there for the birth of his first grandchild because of her other Kidney. Two people can see now because of her. I will die in the next three or four years unless I receive someone elses heart. when I do if any part of my body can help someone else they can have it. I know it’s hard to think about but at least use a little common sense. ---
**Author:** ![jmpride62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@jmpride62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmpride62)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/35 "2002-04-27T02:54:12Z")
I am currently a hospital intern, and I honestly believe that if people knew how their bodies are invaded/violated/molested in an attempt to SAVE their lives they would be far less concerned about what happens to them after they die. People will come into our ER wanting all heroic measures to be taken to save their loved ones, and then will decline organ donations becuase they don’t want their loved ones to be disturbed? That logic escapes me. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/36 "2002-04-27T03:11:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ice Lord Ssarl \* > \*\*And the religion thing: I am Christian, and have never heard of this. No decent religion would seriuosly consider an impact body more important than saving lives. And as for the whole “intact body to get into heaven thing” um… what about people who are beheaded? Mangled in car wrecks? Blown up? Crushed in avalanches? Burned alive? Beheaded? > HECK, are you saying to me John the Baptist is in Hell because his head was removed? > OF COURSE NOT! > > You are all mad, and I am asahmed of you. > Get yourself an organ donor card, and pray for forgiveness. \*\* Regardless of your opinion about the situation, that doesn’t change the beliefs of many Jews and Jehovah’s Witnesses. The latter do not even really permit blood transfusions, so I highly doubt that an organ transplant would be considered appropriate. (From some sources I’ve read, it’s been suggested that it’s up to the individual’s conscience as to whether organ transplants are allowable, but from my experience in working in a hospital, the Jehovah’s Witnesses I’ve dealt with have not even wanted to do blood transfusions. YMMV.) A Jewish friend looked into whether his appendix removal would create problems for him (it wouldn’t), and various forms of bodily “mutilation” like tattooing are forbidden as being desecration of the temple of the soul. Even embalming is not allowed - in a recent case ( [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020402/ts\_nm/crime\_cremation\_dc\_1](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020402/ts_nm/crime_cremation_dc_1) ) there was a furor when a Jewish woman was not cremated, but was embalmed. When I read about the case in the newspaper, there was a quote from her family, lamenting this - I **think** the quote was that she couldn’t be in Paradise because of that, but unfortunately I don’t have the article in front of me. From what I’ve read, even autopsies are generally discouraged except when considered very important to do, and all organs, tissue, etc. should be returned for burial. (Note that during the last century, there has apparently been something of a movement to allow Jewish people to donate their organs, or their bodies to science, from what I can find on the web.) My apologies for my poor background on these topics and if I misrepresented anything too greatly. I’m merely trying to illustrate that in some religious beliefs, messing around with the body is or can be considered a desecration. Oh, and I’ve had my organ donor card signed since I first got my driver’s license. Personally, I do think it’s a shame if people don’t want to donate their organs, for whatever reason. But saying that someone’s religion isn’t “decent” isn’t the way to change minds. ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/37 "2002-04-27T03:32:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ice Lord Ssarl \* > \*\*Well, I am one of SEVEN Australians under 18 who signed up for organ donation in the last year. \*\* Firstly, welcome to the Straight Dope, **Ice Lord.** Secondly, I find this claim _very_ surprising. Could you please provide a cite. I feel it hardly likely that with the number of 17 year olds who get their licence and nominate whether they will be donors or not, only seven have done so this year, nationwide. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/38 "2002-04-27T03:34:25Z")
Just a note for those who said their parents didn’t like the organ donation idea: remember that [if your family refuses](http://www.organdonor.gov/faq.html#4) to sign a consent form permitting the donation of your organs, the fact that you’re an organ donor most likely means absolutely nothing. On the [Donor Network](http://www.dnaz.org/PublicEd/myths.asp) site where I live, they state explicitly that family must consent to organ donation, or else organ donation will not happen. In my case, I’ve tried to broach this subject with my family, and my mother has stated that she would not consent for my organ donation. I could go ahead and sign an organ donor card and hope that if I died that she might change her mind, but if I were to cause her extreme emotional distress by dying, I wouldn’t want to deliberately cause more by signing an organ donor card. Although I know that I could always die before my mother, I’d rather take that chance and wait until after she is deceased or wait until I’m married to sign an organ donor card. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/39 "2002-04-27T03:44:50Z")
Not only do I have the “any organ” and “entire body” boxes on the back of my ID card checked, but I’ve made sure that my wife knows of my wishes. I also regularly (as my schedule permits) spend two hours laying on a couch with needles stuck in both arms having platelets filtered out of my blood. And I hate needles. My wife also wants her organs donated, although with her medical situation she rather doubts they’d be of any use to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Ariadne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71c47a/32.png) [@Ariadne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ariadne)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786/40 "2002-04-27T05:06:53Z")
On my driver’s license I’m not an organ donor, thanks to the DMV workers. When I got my first license, they laminated it before handing it to me, so I didn’t have a chance to check any of the boxes. The second time, the worker handed me the unlaminated license so I could see the picture, then asked for it back to laminate it. I said, "Just a sec, I want to check off the organ donor boxes, " but she grabbed the license and handed me a pamphlet on organ donations. She said the pamphlet would tell me how to sign up to be an organ donor, and by the time I read it and realized that it didn’t, she had laminated the license. _sigh_ Oh well, my mom and my fiance both know that I want to be an organ donor, and that’s what really matters. lel is right, no matter what your license says, they’re still going to ask your family for permission before harvesting any organs. Sometimes I think that it would be a good idea if organ donation were an opt-out system instead. Think of how many lives would be saved. I guess that can’t be done as long as some religions are against it though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-not-an-organ-donor/105786.md?page=3)