# Why are you pro choice or pro life? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 1, 2021, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904 "2021-09-01T14:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/341 "2021-09-19T23:02:38Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > One second before it is born it is full property of the woman; one second after it is a child of God. It makes no sense. It makes absolute sense. Let’s say you need a kidney, and I agree to donate one to you. As long as the kidney is still in my body, I can do whatever I want, and you have no say. I can cheat on any pre-transplant diet I am supposed to be following; I can smoke pot; I can take risks, like driving 85mph on the highway. I can skip pre-transplant medication I may be on to prevent kidney stones. I can also change my mind and keep the kidney, or I can donate it to someone else. However, once it is in your body, I no longer have any say whatsoever in what happens to it: you skip your anti-rejection meds? not my business. Don’t treat your diabetes properly? not my business. Gain 40lbs now that you are off your “renal disease diet”? not my business. During whatever (brief) time it is in no one’s body, I believe it belongs to the National Registry of Organ Donors, but I could be mistaken; it might belong to the hospital where the surgery is taking place. They may be contractually obligated to do certain things with it, and might be sued if they don’t, but the point is, it does not belong to me. The transition is quite abrupt. Arteries are clamped, some connective tissue is severed, then the arteries are severed, and as soon as the last one is cut, _bam_ it does not belong to me. A second earlier, it did, then suddenly, it did not. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/342 "2021-09-19T23:31:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > We do it to establish and strengthen bonds between intimate partners. People unable to reproduce still engage in in sex. Who wants to tell our correspondent that _women who are already pregnant_ have sex? and men have sex with women who are already pregnant. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/343 "2021-09-19T23:35:45Z")
> [@Roger\_That](#): > > so far I am satisfied that my Church’ positions are overwhelmingly on the money. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/344 "2021-09-20T00:27:24Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Who wants to tell our correspondent that _women who are already pregnant_ have sex? and men have sex with women who are already pregnant. Back when I was in alt.atheism, one fanatical Catholic stated that everyone knew sex on birth control was less satisfying than sex off birth control. Everyone else - atheist or theist - said, not quite and laughed at him. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/345 "2021-09-20T00:40:41Z")
Makes you wonder what method he was using. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/346 "2021-09-20T01:28:34Z")
I know that - rhythm method, just like the Pope says. That would seem to me to be the very least satisfying way. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/347 "2021-09-20T01:34:36Z")
? ? Why “least satisfying”? Fertility-awareness or “rhythm” contraception methods are just selectively timed abstinence. In such a system, the sex itself is just like any other unprotected sex. It has nothing to do with avoiding ejaculation during intercourse, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/348 "2021-09-20T01:40:16Z")
I’d think you’d be worried that you were making a mistake, and would wind up pregnant. We’ve never used this method, but when we were trying to get pregnant there seemed to be an element of scheduling involved. Now my wife did research on reproductive physiology in grad school, and might have been overthinking it. But considering how quickly she got pregnant when we started trying, we were right in worrying. She said that after I got a vasectomy the experience improved for her due to lack of worry. There’s more to satisfaction than just the mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/349 "2021-09-20T01:49:55Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’d think you’d be worried that you were making a mistake, and would wind up pregnant. Sure, almost any form of contraception can fail, and there’s always some potential worry about that for couples who don’t want to get pregnant. As you note, couples who use other methods of birth control can also find that worrying about unintended pregnancy diminishes their satisfaction. But I don’t know that NFP (natural fertility planning, “rhythm”) users worry more than the average. I’ve never done NFP-only contraception but have done fertility awareness tracking, and depending on what data you collect and how predictable your cycles are it can actually be more reassuring to know more about what’s going on. I know one or two Catholic couples who’ve been NFP-only, with a couple planned pregnancies, so it’s possible to practice it for years without making a mistake. Of course, there are also zillions of NFP practitioners who got pregnant unintentionally, so MMV. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/350 "2021-09-20T02:02:10Z")
I had a Catholic roommate my first year in college. She said she had five younger siblings as results of the rhythm method. That would, admittedly, have been in the 1960’s. I think the techniques used these days may have a better success rate. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/351 "2021-09-20T02:16:27Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I know that - rhythm method, just like the Pope says. > That would seem to me to be the very least satisfying way. Well, that would certainly be the least satisfying to ME. I used fertility awareness when we were trying to conceive. I was aware when I was fertile – men looked hotter, and I was hornier. It wasn’t at all subtle. I know that not all women can tell when they are fertile, but I could, with excellent accuracy. And having sex only when I wasn’t fertile would have been frustrating as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/352 "2021-09-20T04:37:54Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Well, that would certainly be the least satisfying to ME. I used fertility awareness when we were trying to conceive. I was aware when I was fertile – men looked hotter, and I was hornier. It wasn’t at all subtle. I know that not all women can tell when they are fertile, but I could, with excellent accuracy. And having sex only when I wasn’t fertile would have been frustrating as hell. Interesting. That had not been reported to me. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Sure, almost any form of contraception can fail, and there’s always some potential worry about that for couples who don’t want to get pregnant. As you note, couples who use other methods of birth control can also find that worrying about unintended pregnancy diminishes their satisfaction. This site [https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/17900-rhythm-method](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/17900-rhythm-method) gives a success rate of 76% for the rhythm method version 91% for the pill. Sure any method can fail, but some fail more than others. And women in my family have anything but regular cycles. But we have a pretty much 100% effective birth control method - old age. And if that fails the money we could make from The National Enquirer would more than compensate us. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/353 "2021-09-20T06:17:09Z")
Once during college, and twice after, I had a 100% effective method. A girlfriend. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/354 "2021-09-20T11:57:13Z")
A friend told me that when her doctor asked what form of birth control she was using, she answered, “Sarah”. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/355 "2021-09-20T21:49:13Z")
So, gay marriage to prevent abortion? I could get behind that. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2021, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/356 "2021-09-24T08:20:57Z")
“Christians are against abortions, and they’re against homosexuals. Well who has less abortions than homosexuals? Here is an entire class of people guaranteed never to have an abortion! You’d think they’d make natural allies." -George Carlin ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/357 "2021-09-28T12:41:58Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Works for the man, who can’t get pregnant anyway. ??? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/358 "2021-09-28T14:28:32Z")
What’s your question? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/359 "2021-09-28T18:22:46Z")
“Progressive modern America is abandoning the definitions of man=adult male human and woman=adult female human, therefore allowing there to be male women and female men.” - Darren-Garrison So, men can get pregnant anyway. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/360 "2021-09-28T18:30:52Z")
OK, I can reword that. Instead of my original > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Works for the man, who can’t get pregnant anyway. > > Can fail for the woman, if for whatever reason (including force) she has sex with some other man. I’ll say: Works for the person with (or by the suggestion in the post I was answering without) testicles, who can’t get pregnant anyway. Can fail for the person with the uterus, if for whatever reason (including force) they have sex with some other person who’s producing sperm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904.md?page=19)