# Why are you pro choice or pro life? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 1, 2021, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904 "2021-09-01T14:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/141 "2021-09-04T23:16:01Z")
Along the lines of what you said, but also thinking less globally, I could imagine two extreme positions: (1) There are too many people having kids who shouldn’t be having kids. (2) There are too many people not having kids who should be having kids. I don’t even think it is a close call between these two extremes: (1) is way, way closer to reality. If we are going to be talking about restricting reproductive rights, I think that the argument for forced sterilizations is way stronger than the argument for forcing women to carry fetuses that they don’t want to term. Just to be clear, I think that the best thing to do is not to restrict reproductive rights in either way, but I must admit that I have a _ **much** _ harder time defending the proposition that people should not be sterilized for the sake of their unborn children than I do defending the proposition that we should restrict abortion for the sake of the unborn children. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/142 "2021-09-05T00:44:07Z")
You left out: "If you think abortion is murder, then you would require an investigation into every single miscarriage, not to mention each of every woman’s menses to ensure she did not “murder a child”. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/143 "2021-09-05T03:20:36Z")
And we would also immediately launch a hundred million dollar initiative to reduce the number of miscarriages. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/144 "2021-09-05T03:34:00Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The abortion issue is frankly the single only one I’ve heard where people will believe a human life is at stake, but leave it to another to make the decision. No it isn’t. Everyone agrees the people who die awaiting blood transfusions, bone marrow, and organs are human lives lost because we don’t have enough to go around. And yet literally no one is suggesting we make donating those things compulsory, even after death. A motorcycle accident victim whose organs could save several lives has more right in every jurisdiction to let them rot with him in the ground, than a living woman in many jurisdictions has to deny the use of her reproductive organs for nine months to a single individual. I’ve donated about a dozen pints of blood over the years, and I’ve also been pregnant once for about 2 months. Even without the much more burdensome 7 months plus childbirth that would’ve followed if I hadn’t gotten an abortion, that pregnancy caused me much more suffering than all those blood donations combined. Don’t kid yourself; the debated personhood of the _fetus_ is not the reason it’s treated differently. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/145 "2021-09-05T03:39:37Z")
I’m pro-choice because the idea of abortion disturbs me deeply, and I’m pretty sure I’d never get one myself were I a woman. So I figure that if anyone is at the point where they think an abortion is the proper course of action, they probably have a pretty good reason for choosing that option, even if I don’t know what that reason is, and might even disagree with it if I did know what it is. Basically, I trust women to make their choices even when things are at their worst. ---
**Author:** ![Somethingwitty1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/somethingwitty1/32/8899_2.png) [@Somethingwitty1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Somethingwitty1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/146 "2021-09-05T05:22:26Z")
I am pro-choice because I don’t know when “Life” begins. But I am comfortable with it not beginning at inception. At some point between a zygote and a new born baby, a human life exist. I don’t know what that point is. I am pretty confident no expectant mother changes her mind in the third trimester and decides to kill her baby. The argument that a Zygote is a human being, I think, is rooted in some religious concept that the zygote has been endowed by God with a soul. And I reject that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/147 "2021-09-05T05:59:08Z")
> [@Somethingwitty1](#): > > I am pretty confident no expectant mother changes her mind in the third trimester and decides to kill her baby. Me too. And if some pregnant woman does change her mind and decides she wants to abort a healthy and viable late-term fetus just because she no longer wants a kid, I’m perfectly fine with the law telling her “sorry, it’s too late for you to make that choice: the development of the fetus has progressed to a point where its degree of personhood and consequently its right to live outweigh your right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.” ---
**Author:** ![Somethingwitty1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/somethingwitty1/32/8899_2.png) [@Somethingwitty1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Somethingwitty1)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/148 "2021-09-05T06:03:24Z")
Except if the life of the mother is at risk. I’m ok with late term abortions in that case. But I think it would be a horrible decision to make. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/149 "2021-09-05T06:08:24Z")
I don’t like abortion. I’m not sure, however, whether it should be illegal- I don’t favor it being illegal in cases of rape, incest, or in case of endangering the mother’s health. I do believe that those who say they are pro-life yet are against universal health care are only pro-birth, not pro-life. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/150 "2021-09-07T08:50:45Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I do believe that those who say they are pro-life yet are against universal health care are only pro-birth, not pro-life. This old saw is just too much. The terms “pro-life” and “pro-choice” should be universal in these threads so that we don’t always bicker more than we already do about the issue. UHC has nothing to do with abortion. Because a person doesn’t believe that a woman should be legally allowed to --what they believe is–murder her baby in utero does not mean that the same person should have a particular position on whether the government pays for everyone’s health care. One has nothing to do with the other. We do this nonsense too much. You can’t be pro-choice because you won’t let me choose to carry a gun, or let me choose not to get a Covid vaccine. Oh yeah, well you can’t be pro-life because you eat meat or aren’t in favor of the latest government program for the poor. They are labels in the _context of the abortion debate_, not universal labels which apply to everything. They are sufficiently neutral, and are terms that each side adopts. We should at least agree to start/stop there with the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/151 "2021-09-07T08:57:17Z")
We bitch about people who claim to be “pro-life” but whose actions seem to indicate they don’t give a damn about that life once said life is born and out in the world. That is relevant, and pertinent to the debate. You have people demanding that every fetus be born but they take absolutely no responsibility for the children born because of their demands. If someone is unwilling to take in unwanted babies and raise them, if someone is opposed to giving aid to families that need it in this world, then they should STFU and mind their own business and NOT be making demands upon the bodies of other people. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/152 "2021-09-07T11:44:39Z")
Those are plausible and arguable points, but has nothing to do with the abortion debate. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/153 "2021-09-07T11:49:34Z")
IOW: As I said. You have sex and have a kid. I can believe that the government shouldn’t allow you to kill the kid in utero, but also believe that as I paid for my child, you should pay for yours. The term doesn’t require government payment at each step. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/154 "2021-09-07T11:52:40Z")
> [@Somethingwitty1](#): > > The argument that a Zygote is a human being, I think, is rooted in some religious concept that the zygote has been endowed by God with a soul. And I reject that. The argument is that the zygote is unique not that it has a soul… I am the result of a particular zygote. Had it not been fertilized, I would not exist. Souls might get a second chance, zygotes don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/155 "2021-09-07T11:59:21Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > sorry, it’s too late That’s OK if legal obstacles did not cause the delay. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/156 "2021-09-07T12:17:08Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > **You have sex** and have a kid. And there it is. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/157 "2021-09-07T13:13:52Z")
Is it a surprise from having sex that a woman might get pregnant? If it was a shock, then it would be different. Everyone knows going in. It’s not a terrible thing to admit the obvious. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/158 "2021-09-07T13:42:47Z")
Which is why, if you don’t want to set up a polarized adversarial situation between male and female people — given that we’re biologically hardwired to crave sex — you don’t interfere with the female folks’ authority to deal with their own bodies and their reproductive capabilities as they see fit. Don’t like abortion? Convince them not to abort. And be careful about the situations in which you have sex. But passing laws and using coercive force to prevent women from doing what they’d otherwise do in these cases is _oppression_. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/159 "2021-09-07T13:44:19Z")
Good argument. I disagree. Doesn’t mean that we can’t keep the labels. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904/160 "2021-09-07T14:11:37Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Is it a surprise from having sex that a woman might get pregnant? If it was a shock, then it would be different. Everyone knows going in. It’s not a terrible thing to admit the obvious. So we can abort the shit out of babies that come from in-vitro? Is rape considered “a woman having sex”? Due to their party’s stance on [birth control](https://www.vogue.com/article/anti-birth-control-movement), [sex education](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/sex-ed-mandate-sparks-bitter-washington-state-ballot-73292915), and [other related issues](https://www.teenvogue.com/story/republican-congressman-jason-lewis-complained-he-cant-use-slut-as-an-insult), many women have long believed that the Republican party wants to legislate their sex life, not just abortions. Turns out they’re right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-you-pro-choice-or-pro-life/949904.md?page=9)