I’m not sure what point you think you’re making. I do know Laurence Tribe at this point is generally considered an eccentric crank, so I give his opinion about the same weight I do yours.
A crank? He is very well respected and has argued in front of SCOTUS. In what context is he a crank?
Yeah. You don’t have to shoot your grandfather to keep your father from being born, just call him and your grandmother at the “right” time.
Or any time for that matter. Just getting up to answer the phone probably randomizes his sperm enough that there is no more you. This is why I hate those alternate timeline stories where everyone is the same but they are all Nazi’s because Hitler got the bomb. If Hitler got the bomb, the timeline would be so messed up that none of the characters would exist. I like realism in my superhero time travel stories damn it! 
We now return you to your regularly scheduled abortion debate.
No point in bringing babies into this world that their mother doesn’t want. It’s that simple.
Most of the arguments on both sides are pissweak and many are irrational.
Pro-choice here. Up until viability, I think abortion should be legal. My understanding is that viability is generally considered the beginning of the third trimester (I know each case is different. My ex-wife was born 3 months premature).
Other than that, I don’t feel that I have the right to tell other people what they can do with their bodies, especially in a situation that personal.
Agreed, and my post supports choice.
Why is this issue the only one where that statement is used? We sent guys to get shot in Vietnam. We tell people they cannot inject heroin into their own bodies. Hell, you aren’t allowed to drive 1/2 of a block without wrapping a seat belt around your own body. If you are called for jury duty, you have to take your own body down to the courthouse or suffer jail.
We mandate what people do with their bodies an awful lot. But in a unique situation where everyone admits that there is some other entity, whether a human life or a potential human life, people ignore that part and repeat the whole “a woman’s body” line, when it particularly isn’t true in that situation and doesn’t apply generally.
I’m pro choice because I don’t believe a fetus is a human being. Yes, it’s living human cells, but it doesn’t have intent. It lacks free will. It has the potential to become a human being, and as such has more moral value than, say, some liver cells. But its rights and moral value are dwarfed by that of the mother, who is a human being.
But because i think human life is important, i think we should add a margin of safety to our considerations of “what counts as human life”. So i oppose abortion after viability unless the life of the mother is at risk. And while i want the mother, not the state, to wrestle with the moral issues prior to viability, i think it is morally wrong to casually kill a fetus, and the farther along in the pregnancy, the more wrong it is, and the stronger the reason should be to kill it.
I hold the same attitude towards military service as I do abortion. I wouldn’t presume to force unwilling people to go to another country and engage in acts of war, as its not my body on the line. I’m not a person who will have other people do things that I’m not willing to do myself.
With respect to abortion, unless it’s my sperm that fertilized the egg, I should have no say in the matter. It’s an intensely personal decision, and I leave myself out of someone else’s decision, because I wouldn’t want them making that decision for me. It’s one thing to offer an opinion or some advice if the woman asks for my perspective. But if she doesn’t ask, my opinion is immaterial.
And if it is my sperm that fertilized the egg, I think my opinion should be taken into account. However, as it’s not my body carrying the fetus, I fully believe that my 10% of the decision is in no way supposed to be treated as equal, nor that my opinion should override the wishes of the woman who is pregnant.
How is this different than a two year old child?
Obviously you’ve never been a parent. A two year old child can decide to drink her milk, or not. A two year old child can decide to sleep at naptime, or not. A two year old child can decide to color on the wall, or not.
A better question is how does this differ from a newborn, because newborns do often seem like a mass of reflexes, without actual volition. My kids developed perceivable volition when they were a couple weeks old.
I’m not completely convinced newborns are really people, just yet. But I’m not sure they aren’t, either. And at any rate, they are damn close to becoming unambiguously human beings. (And they aren’t parasites inside someone’s body, either.)
As I said, I oppose abortion after the baby is viable, unless the mother’s life is in serious danger, because it might be a human being already, and if not, it’s really damn close to being one.
But two year olds? Yeah, they are all about volition and free will. Absolutely no question there.
This particular mass of cells can be given to a different caregiver - the prior mass of cells, not so much.
Yes, that’s an incredibly important distinction. I worded it less kindly
How does it not make sense?
Premise, all people have brains.
Premise, X has no brain.
Conclusion, X is not a person.
Next, your counterargument. Maybe you can help fill in the blanks?
Premise, some animals have brains.
Premise, ???
Conclusion, ???
~Max
This of course assumes that a fetus is not a person or part of a person, because by definition, creatures are different from people.
But once it is decided a fetus is a living creature, yes, your logic works out… you would need two syllogisms but it works out.
~Max
I don’t know where you’re getting your definition. I’ve seen quite a few definitions of “creature” that include people.
Here’s some:
Creature - definition of creature by The Free Dictionary .
a. A living being, especially an animal: land creatures; microscopic creatures in a drop of water.
b. A human.
c. An imaginary or fantastical being: mythological creatures; a creature from outer space.
2. One dependent on or subservient to another.
3. Something created.
Creature Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary .
An animate or living being.
- A domestic animal, specif. a horse.
- A human being.
- A strange or imaginary being.
Creature Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster .
: something created either animate or inanimate: such as
a : a lower animal especially : a farm animal
b : a human being
c : a being of anomalous or uncertain aspect or nature
Not the biblical definition, unless you are going to argue that God told Noah cannibalism is A-OK.
~Max
I have no idea what word in the original is commonly translated as “creature”; and I don’t see why a biblical definition would be the only one appropriate in this thread in any case.