# Why are young black men in the US 21X more likely to be killed by police than young white men? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 13, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156 "2014-10-13T01:48:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/341 "2014-10-16T10:13:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Your rebuttal is what is nonsense. > > For an individual to benefit from affirmative action, they must be part of a minority that the AA is trying to help. Correct? Correct! > > And if that individual benefitted from the AA, a more qualified candidate must have gotten bumped. Because if the beneficiary of AA did _not_ have lesser qualification, then he, or she, got the job _without_ AA coming into play. Utter bullshit. AA includes the entire spectrum of the hiring process from making sure that minority candidates are aware of the jobs through an active attempt to seek them out to an effort to make sure that they will know that they are welcome. I worked at a place that had an effective AA program. The way it worked was that their recruitment process for their engineers and programmers followed a particular arc. Instead of going only to the local colleges and hanging out on recruitment day, they also went to two majority-black colleges a bit further away in the state and they made sure that they included a more distant school that had a program that was known as “women friendly.” They took along employees who could talk with the college kids about the conditions in the department. When they ran ads for employment, they made sure that one of the publications was the black newspaper in Cleveland. They took _affirmative action_ to find minority recruits. No one was hired who did not meet the qualifications for the position and in some years all the new-hires were white males and in some years they picked up black or woman graduates. On the other hand, the next department over kept ducking HR on the issue and only going to local white-majority schools and advertising in only the local paper and their staff was entirely white male. Your claim that someone had to be underqualified to be hired under AA is nothing more than unthinking preconceived beliefs with no connection to reality. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/342 "2014-10-16T11:07:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Individuals should not be judged or treated differently _at all_ based on the group they belong to. As a general statement, that’s absolute nonsense. Otherwise you need to treat children like adults, the dangerously mentally ill like everyone else, criminals like innocent people, and so forth. A member of a group that commits 10 times as many violent crimes as any other can, and will, be treated differently. To say they shouldn’t be is not just wrong, but absurd. Oh, and one more point. This thread is about violent _crime_, so comments about white people beating or raping their slaves is utterly irrelevant, no matter how abhorrent that behaviour was. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/343 "2014-10-16T11:16:13Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > As a general statement, that’s absolute nonsense. Otherwise you need to treat children like adults, the dangerously mentally ill like everyone else, criminals like innocent people, and so forth. What I meant was clear in the context of this discussion. No one should be treated differently because of their race. No one should be mistreated based on the group they belong to. If you took my statement otherwise than you can forget about it and take the meaning of the previous two sentences. > [@](#): > > A member of a group that commits 10 times as many violent crimes as any other can, and will, be treated differently. To say they shouldn’t be is not just wrong, but absurd. They are treated differently in many cases, but they shouldn’t be. Treating them differently _makes the problem worse_. It makes society worse. It helps no one. If you need to act more warily, than act more warily regardless of race. No one deserves to be mistreated because of their race. Treating someone more negatively because of their race is mistreatment, and wrong. This isn’t and shouldn’t be a controversial statement at all. Further, why would we believe the disparate treatment has anything to do with crime statistics? It started long before we had such statistics, and in a time when such statistics would have revealed white-on-black violence was far, far worse than the reverse. Through most of American history, police, for the most part, treated black people like crap. Are we just supposed to believe that now, and only now, this mistreatment is justified? > [@](#): > > Oh, and one more point. This thread is about violent _crime_, so comments about white people beating or raping their slaves is utterly irrelevant, no matter how abhorrent that behaviour was. It’s entirely relevant if the stereotypes were about propensity for violence and rape. It shows that these stereotypes and caricatures had nothing to do with reality, and everything to do with a culture of racial supremacy and oppression. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/344 "2014-10-16T11:45:32Z")
The thing is, people aren’t being treated differently because of their race, but because of their perceived propensity for violence. The skin colour is irrelevant. What would be wrong is treating people differently when there isn’t actually a difference. It’s not racist to observe, and act upon, the fact that young black men are vastly more violent than any other demographic. What _would_ be racist is extending that to older black men, black children, or black women, as that would ignore the other factors and only focus on race. The other thing would be racist is a belief that race is the _cause_ of the violent tendencies, not an indicator of them. Unfortunately, any investigation into the actual causes gets stymied by people, such as yourself, who cry racism when it’s both wrong and inappropriate. Oh, and I don’t believe anyone is saying _mistreatment_ of black people is acceptable. But most of the stuff that gets discussed isn’t mistreatment, it’s the police trying to their job. Doing that properly will mean investigating more (at least proportionally) black youths, as they commit vastly more crime. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/345 "2014-10-16T12:02:09Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The thing is, people aren’t being treated differently because of their race, but because of their perceived propensity for violence. If it’s because they’re black, or because of things one believes are tied to being black, then they’re being treated differently _because of their race_. > [@](#): > > The skin colour is irrelevant. This statement is contradicted by your others. Further, it’s ridiculous on its face – the KKK doesn’t go after black people for their dark skin, they would say; they go after black people because (according to the KKK) black people are stupid and dangerous and inferior. > [@](#): > > What would be wrong is treating people differently when there isn’t actually a difference. It’s not racist to observe, and act upon, the fact that young black men are vastly more violent than any other demographic. It’s wrong to treat young black men in a negative way strictly because they’re young black men. It’s wrong to be more likely to draw your gun, and more likely to pull the trigger, just because it’s a young black male. The police aren’t protected by being more twitchy around young black males – they’re just increasing the risk to cops in the future. > [@](#): > > The other thing would be racist is a belief that race is the _cause_ of the violent tendencies, not an indicator of them. Unfortunately, any investigation into the actual causes gets stymied by people, such as yourself, who cry racism when it’s both wrong and inappropriate. This is false. The causes are heavily studied, even though it’s a very controversial (and complicated) topic. We have nearly monthly discussions on various ideas for these causes. And pointing out that racist claims are racist isn’t stymieing discussion. > [@](#): > > Oh, and I don’t believe anyone is saying _mistreatment_ of black people is acceptable. But most of the stuff that gets discussed isn’t mistreatment, it’s the police trying to their job. Shooting/tasing/beating black men who presented no threat to anyone isn’t doing one’s job. There are instances in which violence may be appropriate, but I find it highly unlikely that it’s 21 times more likely to be appropriate for young black males as for young white males. > [@](#): > > Doing that properly will mean investigating more (at least proportionally) black youths, as they commit vastly more crime. Investigating is fine. Pulling someone over because they’re black and driving a nice car is not. Beating someone when they stop running and put their hands up is not. Shooting someone who is falling backwards with their hands up is not. Taking money from a black man’s pocket is not. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/346 "2014-10-16T12:37:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s wrong to treat young black men in a negative way strictly because they’re young black men. It’s wrong to be more likely to draw your gun, and more likely to pull the trigger, just because it’s a young black male. The police aren’t protected by being more twitchy around young black males – they’re just increasing the risk to cops in the future. Yes, I know, are you just paraphrasing my post here? It’s wrong to do anything _because_ they are young black males. However, the police are acting the way they do because they are a vastly greater threat, not because of their age or gender, or any other factor. > [@](#): > > This is false. The causes are heavily studied, even though it’s a very controversial (and complicated) topic. We have nearly monthly discussions on various ideas for these causes. And pointing out that racist claims are racist isn’t stymieing discussion. I’m not talking about pointing out that racist claims are racist, though. I’m talking about making false claims that non-racist statements are racist, and that is a well-known technique for shutting down discussion. You’re trying it in this very thread. > [@](#): > > Shooting/tasing/beating black men who presented no threat to anyone isn’t doing one’s job. There are instances in which violence may be appropriate, but I find it highly unlikely that it’s 21 times more likely to be appropriate for young black males as for young white males. No-one’s suggesting doing that to anyone who isn’t a threat. However, you’ve repeatedly been shown that young black men are a vastly greater threat than anyone else, and so it’s entirely reasonable that they will receive more tasings and shootings than others. Beatings are never acceptable, but my observation is that in many cases, legitimate subduing is falsely reported as beating. > [@](#): > > Investigating is fine. Yep, glad we at least agree on that. > [@](#): > > Pulling someone over because they’re black and driving a nice car is not. Again, _because_. That’s not the reason it happens. It’s not because of the skin colour. > [@](#): > > Beating someone when they stop running and put their hands up is not. Beating is never acceptable. Subduing someone in that situation is not just acceptable but advisable. > [@](#): > > Shooting someone who is falling backwards with their hands up is not. _Starting to shoot_ someone in that situation isn’t. Continuing to shoot someone who was a threat is not just acceptable, it’s best practice. > [@](#): > > Taking money from a black man’s pocket is not. It’s no more or less acceptable than for anyone else. Anyone carrying a large amount of cash is suspicious, and should at minimum be expected to give an explanation. This is assuming that the police have reason to stop and search them for it (which would require more evidence than a stop and frisk, unless the money is in plain view). All of this stems from the fact (yes, it’s a fact) that young black men are violent to a vastly disproportionate level, and they need to either stop being so, or be stopped from being so. It is, in part, the police’s job to stop them. _That_ is the ultimate answer to the question posed in the thread title. The police are doing their job. Now, I know you’ll attempt to twist that into me saying “the police’s job is to kill black people” or whatever, but it isn’t. It’s their job to stop criminals, especially violent criminals. Other crime is investigated by other agencies. To do so unfortunately involves killing some proportion of those violent criminals, and statistics will clearly explain that a greater proportion will be black. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/347 "2014-10-16T12:52:52Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes, I know, are you just paraphrasing my post here? It’s wrong to do anything _because_ they are young black males. However, the police are acting the way they do because they are a vastly greater threat, not because of their age or gender, or any other factor. “Vastly greater threat” is ridiculous. Most young black men are a threat to no one. Treating them all differently because of the actions of a few is wrong, and counterproductive. _Young black men are not dangerous, and are not criminals_. A few are. Most aren’t. Most deserve to be treated with the same respect and decency as anyone else. > [@](#): > > I’m not talking about pointing out that racist claims are racist, though. I’m talking about making false claims that non-racist statements are racist, and that is a well-known technique for shutting down discussion. You’re trying it in this very thread. Where and when? > [@](#): > > However, you’ve repeatedly been shown that young black men are a vastly greater threat than anyone else, Most young black men are no threat. Statistical disparities are not a good reason to treat people differently, especially considering that disparate treatment _makes society worse_. When cops do this, they are hurting themselves (and society) in the long run. I still have yet to see any explanation of why the treatment should be different. If you think they should act more warily, then they can act more warily for everyone. Treating everyone the same regardless of race harms no one, and puts no one at risk. > [@](#): > > and so it’s entirely reasonable that they will receive more tasings and shootings than others. Is the 21 times difference from young white men reasonable? What if it was 100 times? 1000 times? Is any disparaty in the killings reasonable, or only certain values of the disparity? > [@](#): > > Beatings are never acceptable, but my observation is that in many cases, legitimate subduing is falsely reported as beating. I’m sure in many cases, beatings are falsely reported to be legitimate subduing as well. > [@](#): > > Again, _because_. That’s not the reason it happens. It’s not because of the skin colour. _Yes it is_, if they’re pulling over the black guy in a nice car but not the white guy in a nice car. Nothing is ever about skin color, in the way you describe it – it’s always about perceptions people have on behavior that is indicated by skin color. In the real world, that means _it’s about skin color_. > [@](#): > > Beating is never acceptable. Subduing someone in that situation is not just acceptable but advisable. In various pit threads, video was posted of a kid who stopped running from the police, put his hands up, and was pistol whipped. Then he was pistol whipped again, hands still up. Then he fell to the ground. Then he was kicked. Then he was punched, still on the ground. Was that advisable? > [@](#): > > _Starting to shoot_ someone in that situation isn’t. Continuing to shoot someone who was a threat is not just acceptable, it’s best practice. Again, in various pit threads, we linked to video of a cop approaching a man standing outside of his car, for a seatbelt violation. He asks the man to show ID. The man reaches into his car and the cop shoots him repeatedly. The man falls backwards, hands in the air, and the cop keeps shooting. Was this “best practice”? > [@](#): > > All of this stems from the fact (yes, it’s a fact) that young black men are violent to a vastly disproportionate level, Most are not violent. > [@](#): > > and they need to either stop being so, Most do not need to stop, since they aren’t violent. > [@](#): > > or be stopped from being so. It is, in part, the police’s job to stop them. _That_ is the ultimate answer to the question posed in the thread title. The police are doing their job. So any disparity is acceptable to you, I guess. It could be 21 times, it could be 10,000 times – since the statistics say a higher number (though still small) number of black men commit crimes, the police are justified in shooting any greater number of them. > [@](#): > > Now, I know you’ll attempt to twist that into me saying “the police’s job is to kill black people” or whatever, but it isn’t. It’s their job to stop criminals, especially violent criminals. Other crime is investigated by other agencies. To do so unfortunately involves killing some proportion of those violent criminals, and statistics will clearly explain that a greater proportion will be black. What greater proportion? Young black men, statistically, commit between 6 and 9 times the violent crime of young white men. Why are they killed 21 times more by police? If it was 1000 times, would this be acceptable to you? Why do you assume this disparity is justified when it’s so much higher than the crime statistics disparity? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/348 "2014-10-16T13:09:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Young black men, statistically, commit between 6 and 9 times the violent crime of young white men. Why are they killed 21 times more by police? You’ve answered your own question. They are killed far more often because they are far more violent. Yes, most young black men aren’t violent. They’re in the vast majority of cases not the ones being killed, so talking about them is, like most of what you keep posting, irrelevant to answering the question in the thread. The answer is, young black men are 21x more likely to be killed by the police because a far greater proportion of young black men, between 6 and 14 times as many based on the stats in this thread, are violent criminals. That is the answer, it is statistically, factually, legally and morally correct, and your attempts to argue otherwise are based entirely on falsehoods and irrelevancies. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/349 "2014-10-16T13:13:41Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You’ve answered your own question. They are killed far more often because they are far more violent. This math doesn’t work out. They’re killed way way WAY more often than the difference in violent crime. > [@](#): > > Yes, most young black men aren’t violent. They’re in the vast majority of cases not the ones being killed, We don’t know this. There are certainly plenty of examples of non-violent black men, on video, being shot/beaten/etc. It’s logical that there are far more examples like these that were not recorded. > [@](#): > > The answer is, young black men are 21x more likely to be killed by the police because a far greater proportion of young black men, between 6 and 14 times as many based on the stats in this thread, are violent criminals. That is the answer, it is statistically, factually, legally and morally correct, and your attempts to argue otherwise are based entirely on falsehoods and irrelevancies. So any disparity is acceptable to you. If young black men were ten thousand times more likely to be killed by the police, then that’s just reasonable and acceptable police behavior, based on this explanation. If it’s a million times, it’s okay for you. Some greater portion of black men are more likely to be criminals, so _any greater portion_ of black men can be killed. Do you really feel this way? It doesn’t matter that the 21 times is way bigger than the other number? It wouldn’t matter if it was 100 or a million times different? I don’t understand this at all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/350 "2014-10-16T13:14:58Z")
You’ve accused me twice of making false claims of racism. I’ve asked you already to show me when and where. I’m asking again here – when and where have I done this? Show me the posts. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/351 "2014-10-16T13:19:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’ve accused me twice of making false claims of racism. I’ve asked you already to show me when and where. I’m asking again here – when and where have I done this? Show me the posts. You have repeatedly claimed that treating young black men differently because of their criminal propensity is racist. It isn’t, it’s, if anything, criminalist. No-one gives a fuck about their skin, it’s the actions that matter. No doubt you will again claim that is racist, and that claim will again be false. Not every negative statement (or positive one, or neutral one) about a black individual, or a group of black people is racist. Mainly, they’re not racist if they’re true. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/352 "2014-10-16T13:24:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You have repeatedly claimed that treating young black men differently because of their criminal propensity is racist. Where and when? Cite. Show me the posts. Where did I call this behavior racist? > [@](#): > > It isn’t, it’s, if anything, criminalist. No-one gives a fuck about their skin, it’s the actions that matter. If it’s the actions that matter, than the skin color would be irrelevant. You’re saying they’re treated differently based on the actions _of others with the same skin color_. That means they’re treated differently because of the color of their skin, not because of their own actions. > [@](#): > > Mainly, they’re not racist if they’re true. People who think the Jews are greedy and can’t be trusted say this. People who think that blacks are inferior in intelligence and morality say this. This is an unhelpful statement and offers nothing useful. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/353 "2014-10-16T13:25:13Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Utter bullshit. > AA includes the entire spectrum of the hiring process from making sure that minority candidates are aware of the jobs through an active attempt to seek them out to an effort to make sure that they will know that they are welcome. > > I worked at a place that had an effective AA program. The way it worked was that their recruitment process for their engineers and programmers followed a particular arc. Instead of going only to the local colleges and hanging out on recruitment day, they also went to two majority-black colleges a bit further away in the state and they made sure that they included a more distant school that had a program that was known as “women friendly.” They took along employees who could talk with the college kids about the conditions in the department. When they ran ads for employment, they made sure that one of the publications was the black newspaper in Cleveland. They took _affirmative action_ to find minority recruits. No one was hired who did not meet the qualifications for the position and in some years all the new-hires were white males and in some years they picked up black or woman graduates. > > On the other hand, the next department over kept ducking HR on the issue and only going to local white-majority schools and advertising in only the local paper and their staff was entirely white male. > > Your claim that someone had to be underqualified to be hired under AA is nothing more than unthinking preconceived beliefs with no connection to reality. I think the difference is “affirmative action” vs “Affirmative Action”. Things like advertising in areas to increase the pool of minority candidates is “aa” (and a good thing), but not what I think of as “AA”. I’m not sure where the line is or if there is some “official” line. But I think that at the very least it is blurry enough for me to say that you are technically correct. I, (I’d say, “obviously”) was referring to the more common use of the term. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/354 "2014-10-16T13:32:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Again again again – cops risk _nothing whatsoever_ by treating everyone the same. So, a cop should approach the car with an 85 year-old woman the same we he would approach the car of a 20-year-old male? Nonsense. You are asking people to stop being human. We are supposed assess the level of risk in a situation and tailor of behavior/vigilance accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/355 "2014-10-16T13:34:58Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, a cop should approach the car with an 85 year-old woman the same we he would approach the car of a 20-year-old male? A cop should approach the car with a 20 year old white male _exactly the same_ as he approaches the car with a 20 year old black male. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/356 "2014-10-16T13:35:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This math doesn’t work out. They’re killed way way WAY more often than the difference in violent crime. It works out perfectly. Based on the stats in this thread, young black men commit at least twice as much crime as other people, and are 6-14 times more likely to be violent. So, one would expect an impartial policeman investigating crime to encounter 12-28 times more violent young black men than others. And, assuming the level of violence is the same, to kill 12-28 times as many. It’s not my fault you don’t understand statistics. So, once again, the answer to the question in the thread is that young black men are 21x more likely to be killed by the police is that they are more likely to encounter the police, and vastly more likely to be violent. If you have any evidence that non-violent young black men are being disproportionately killed by the police, bring it. But as yet, there’s been none. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/357 "2014-10-16T13:36:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A cop should approach the car with a 20 year old white male _exactly the same_ as he approaches the car with a 20 year old black male. Do you disagree? Yes. He should be 6-14 times more wary of violence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/358 "2014-10-16T13:38:06Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It works out perfectly. Based on the stats in this thread, young black men commit at least twice as much crime as other people, and are 6-14 times more likely to be violent. It’s 6 to 9 – the 14 had no basis. > [@](#): > > So, one would expect an impartial policeman investigating crime to encounter 12-28 times more violent young black men than others. And, assuming the level of violence is the same, to kill 12-28 times as many. It’s not my fault you don’t understand statistics. Makes no sense. Why do we expect it to double all of a sudden? Show your math here. When do crime statistics spontaneously double? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/359 "2014-10-16T13:39:25Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Yes. He should be 6-14 times more wary of violence. This helps no one, and hurts society. The cop is not at risk one iota more if he puts this same level of wariness for young white men. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/360 "2014-10-16T13:40:30Z")
You’re still running from your accusation that I stymied discussion with false claims of racism. _Show me the posts_, **Steophan**. Use the quote function. Support your accusation, if you can. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156.md?page=19)