# Why are young black men in the US 21X more likely to be killed by police than young white men? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 13, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156 "2014-10-13T01:48:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/361 "2014-10-16T13:42:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If it’s because they’re black, or because of things one believes are tied to being black, then they’re being treated differently _because of their race_. > > This statement is contradicted by your others. Further, it’s ridiculous on its face – the KKK doesn’t go after black people for their dark skin, they would say; they go after black people because (according to the KKK) black people are stupid and dangerous and inferior. > > It’s wrong to treat young black men in a negative way strictly because they’re young black men. It’s wrong to be more likely to draw your gun, and more likely to pull the trigger, just because it’s a young black male. The police aren’t protected by being more twitchy around young black males – they’re just increasing the risk to cops in the future. > > This is false. The causes are heavily studied, even though it’s a very controversial (and complicated) topic. We have nearly monthly discussions on various ideas for these causes. And pointing out that racist claims are racist isn’t stymieing discussion. > > Shooting/tasing/beating black men who presented no threat to anyone isn’t doing one’s job. There are instances in which violence may be appropriate, but I find it highly unlikely that it’s 21 times more likely to be appropriate for young black males as for young white males. > > Investigating is fine. Pulling someone over because they’re black and driving a nice car is not. Beating someone when they stop running and put their hands up is not. Shooting someone who is falling backwards with their hands up is not. Taking money from a black man’s pocket is not. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Where and when? Cite. Show me the posts. Where did I call this behavior racist? The whole post quoted above. > [@](#): > > If it’s the actions that matter, than the skin color would be irrelevant. You’re saying they’re treated differently based on the actions _of others with the same skin color_. That means they’re treated differently because of the color of their skin, not because of their own actions. No, they’re not. Skin colour is irrelevant. You’ve accepted that treating an 85 year old woman differently to a young man is acceptable, because it’s expected they’ll act differently. That’s neither ageist nor sexist, because it’s based on fact. Same with treating the black man differently, as it’s based on fact. > [@](#): > > People who think the Jews are greedy and can’t be trusted say this. People who think that blacks are inferior in intelligence and morality say this. This is an unhelpful statement and offers nothing useful. Except there’s nothing to support most of those statements. But if there was, it wouldn’t be racist to say it. It’s no more racist to say young black men are more likely to be violent than it is sexist to say women are more likely to get pregnant than men. So, it’s no more wrong to take more precautions when questioning young black men than it is to use more contraception when sleeping with a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/362 "2014-10-16T13:45:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’re still running from your accusation that I stymied discussion with false claims of racism. _Show me the posts_, **Steophan**. Use the quote function. Support your accusation, if you can. _Your whole argument_ is that people shouldn’t treat young black men differently from others, despite the statistical difference, because it’s racist to do so. I’ve already quoted one post, but the totality of your argument is that. Racism is a form of prejudice. If you are acting on facts, it’s not, by definition, prejudice. Prejudice is acting without the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/363 "2014-10-16T13:48:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This helps no one, and hurts society. The cop is not at risk one iota more if he puts this same level of wariness for young white men. That’s an utterly ridiculous statement, and the only reason you could possibly be making it is because you want to see more white men killed to even up the statistics. The police being more wary of young black men doesn’t harm society, _young black men being violent_ harms society. As does anyone else, of course, it’s just that young black men are many times more likely to be violent than _anyone else_. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/364 "2014-10-16T13:50:42Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The whole post quoted above. What an enourmous FAIL. You said I stymied discussion by falsely claiming racism. Yet, not once did I claim _anything_ was racist. The only time I used that term was saying “pointing out that racist claims are racist isn’t stymieing discussion”. I didn’t call a single thing you said “racist”. So your accusation is bunk, and you can’t support it. I’ll keep that in mind. > [@](#): > > No, they’re not. Skin colour is irrelevant. You’ve accepted that treating an 85 year old woman differently to a young man is acceptable, because it’s expected they’ll act differently. When did I accept this? For one thing, a cop loses nothing by approaching a car with an old woman in the same way as he approaches a car with a young man. And for another thing, this discussion isn’t about old women. > [@](#): > > That’s neither ageist nor sexist, because it’s based on fact. Same with treating the black man differently, as it’s based on fact. It’s not based on facts, because most black men are not dangerous, and because treating them differently _makes society worse and puts cops at greater risk_. > [@](#): > > It’s no more racist to say young black men are more likely to be violent than it is sexist to say women are more likely to get pregnant than men. So, it’s no more wrong to take more precautions when questioning young black men than it is to use more contraception when sleeping with a woman. How far can we take this? Is it appropriate to have special cops with extra training, and only these specially trained cops can deal with black suspects? We could have a “black patrol” with extra armor and weapons and training? How about black people have to live in certain areas with greater monitoring by police? Aren’t these just the same sorts of reasonable precautions that you’re advocating? If not, what’s the difference? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/365 "2014-10-16T13:52:48Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > _Your whole argument_ is that people shouldn’t treat young black men differently from others, despite the statistical difference, because it’s racist to do so. I’ve already quoted one post, but the totality of your argument is that. Wrong. You failed to show that I called any of this “racist”. You said I was stymieing discussion with false claims of racism. _Where are these claims_? How can I be stymieing discussion if I’m not calling anything “racist”? > [@](#): > > Racism is a form of prejudice. If you are acting on facts, it’s not, by definition, prejudice. Prejudice is acting without the facts. If you’re judging someone based on the actions of others, that’s _acting without facts_. It’s not behaving factually to treat someone differently because he has the skin color of others who have done wrong. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/366 "2014-10-16T13:54:47Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > That’s an utterly ridiculous statement, and the only reason you could possibly be making it is because you want to see more white men killed to even up the statistics. No, it’s because I want to make society better. Treating black people worse harms society, including the police. Treating black dads poorly in front of their kids _makes kids more likely to be criminals_. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/367 "2014-10-16T13:56:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you’re judging someone based on the actions of others, that’s _acting without facts_. It’s not behaving factually to treat someone differently because he has the skin color of others who have done wrong. It is a fact that young black men are 6-14 times more likely to commit violent crime, and it is perfectly reasonable to act on that knowledge, either as a private individual or a policeman. Frankly, not to do so would be idiotic, and would be putting yourself in unnecessary danger. So, you going to bring those statistics that show that non-violent black men get killed by the police more often than non-violent white men, then? Or just continue to post nonsense and irrelevancies? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/368 "2014-10-16T13:57:40Z")
Most black males are decent and non-violent. They don’t have to change anything. You’re advocating that cops treat these decent, non-violent people worse, because they share a skin color with others who do bad things. This makes society worse. This puts cops at risk in the future. This harms the community. This does nothing good. Treating people based on their own actions is fine. Treating people based on the actions of others is not. It’s both wrong and foolish. It’s counter-productive. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/369 "2014-10-16T13:59:06Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It is a fact that young black men are 6-14 times more likely to commit violent crime, and it is perfectly reasonable to act on that knowledge, either as a private individual or a policeman. Frankly, not to do so would be idiotic, and would be putting yourself in unnecessary danger. It’s not 6 to 14. It’s 6 to 9. And they’re killed at a 21 times greater rate. You doubled the numbers for some reason, but that doesn’t make any sense. Why is 21 times different acceptable? Would 100 times the killings be acceptable? How about a million? Is there any disparity that would make you think “maybe the cops are too quick to kill young black males”? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/370 "2014-10-16T13:59:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, it’s because I want to make society better. Treating black people worse harms society, including the police. Treating black dads poorly in front of their kids _makes kids more likely to be criminals_. If the dads weren’t criminals in the first place, they’d be left in peace to bring up their kids properly. Put the blame where it’s due. Yes, racism exists. Yes, black people are in many ways treated despicably. However, they are not being killed disproportionately by the police, and no matter how badly you are treated, you don’t get a pass for acting badly in response. But please, bring me the statistics that show that innocent, non-violent black people are being disproportionately mistreated by the police. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/371 "2014-10-16T14:00:42Z")
So far, **Steophan** tried to double the violent crime statistics, without explanation. Wrong. **Steophan** accused me of stymieing conversation with false claims of racism. And he couldn’t find any posts in which I did this. Wrong again. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/372 "2014-10-16T14:02:41Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If the dads weren’t criminals in the first place, they’d be left in peace to bring up their kids properly. Put the blame where it’s due. Most black dads are not criminals. Are you seriously advocating treating decent black dads more poorly because they share a skin color with others who act badly? > [@](#): > > Yes, racism exists. Yes, black people are in many ways treated despicably. However, they are not being killed disproportionately by the police, and no matter how badly you are treated, you don’t get a pass for acting badly in response. They are killed at a 21 times greater rate. You tried to double the violent crime statistics to fit this, but it made no sense. I guess you’ve abandoned that argument. Would any disparity be acceptable to you? If young black males were killed 1000 times more than young white males, would you think this is absolutely fine? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/373 "2014-10-16T14:04:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not 6 to 14. It’s 6 to 9. And they’re killed at a 21 times greater rate. You doubled the numbers for some reason, but that doesn’t make any sense. No, it’s 6 to 14. You provide a cite that estimated 6-9, someone else one that said 14. > [@](#): > > Why is 21 times different acceptable? Because it’s bang in the middle of 12-28, the expected amount of times more likely it is for the police to encounter a violent young black man than young white one. As I’ve explained. Learn statistics before talking about them. > [@](#): > > Would 100 times the killings be acceptable? How about a million? Is there any disparity that would make you think “maybe the cops are too quick to kill young black males”? Yes, either of those figures would make me think “maybe”. In fact, 21x made me think “maybe”, so I followed this thread with interest to see whether it was, in fact, the case. It isn’t, it’s (rather shockingly, I’ll admit) a reasonable amount to expect, based on the increased likelihood of young black men coming to the attention of the police, and the vastly increased likelihood of them being violent. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/374 "2014-10-16T14:08:24Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > For an individual to benefit from affirmative action, they must be part of a minority that the AA is trying to help. Correct? Correct! You continue to utterly miss the point. **iiandyiii** said it’s wrong to stereotype minorities as beneficiaries of affirmative action. You just keep saying ‘affirmative action = less qualified!!!’ You have not responded to his actual point at all. Are you incapable of understanding or recognizing this point? > [@magellan01](#): > > So, to expect a cop to not have a higher sense of apprehension when stopping a black male is odd in the extreme. It goes against human nature. It’s not against human nature at all. You’re justifying a racial bias that hurts people and doesn’t deter crime. > [@Steophan](#): > > As a general statement, that’s absolute nonsense. What his point was pretty clear. This is just tedious nitpicking. > [@](#): > > Oh, and one more point. This thread is about violent _crime_, so comments about white people beating or raping their slaves is utterly irrelevant, no matter how abhorrent that behaviour was. We’ve talked about Jim Crow at great length. What a shocking and irrelevant nitpick this is. > [@Steophan](#): > > The thing is, people aren’t being treated differently because of their race, but because of their perceived propensity for violence. They’re assumed to have a propensity for violence based on race. This is a distinction without a difference. > [@](#): > > The answer is, young black men are 21x more likely to be killed by the police because a far greater proportion of young black men, between 6 and 14 times as many based on the stats in this thread, are violent criminals. The statistics are about the rate black _people_ are killed, not black _criminals_. You’re using the one to excuse the other, and even then, you’re saying you don’t mind if police are far more likely to kill a black criminal than a white one - based on criminal convictions of other people of the same race, I guess. > [@Steophan](#): > > Yes. He should be 6-14 times more wary of violence. Thank you for demonstrating what I’ve been saying throughout this thread: this idea is complete gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/375 "2014-10-16T14:16:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Most black males are decent and non-violent. They don’t have to change anything. You’re advocating that cops treat these decent, non-violent people worse, because they share a skin color with others who do bad things. This makes society worse. This puts cops at risk in the future. This harms the community. This does nothing good. No, I’m not. I’m pointing out that the vastly greater amount of them that aren’t decent and non-violent are being treated how they deserve. Being more wary of someone isn’t treating them differently. > [@](#): > > Treating people based on their own actions is fine. Treating people based on the actions of others is not. It’s both wrong and foolish. It’s counter-productive. Sigh. Try reading what I actually write, not what the voices in your head are saying. There’s nothing wrong with being more wary of someone who is roughly ten times more likely to be violent. There would be something very wrong with acting preemptively, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So far, **Steophan** tried to double the violent crime statistics, without explanation. Wrong. That you are too damn ignorant to understand the (extremely simple) explanation I gave, and too damn arrogant to fix that ignorance, is not my problem. It’s yours. > [@](#): > > **Steophan** accused me of stymieing conversation with false claims of racism. And he couldn’t find any posts in which I did this. Wrong again. You’ve done it again in the posts quoted here. You are accusing me of suggesting that black people be treated differently for reasons not based on fact, when I’ve made it abundantly clear that I support treating everybody as the facts show they deserve. Please, as I’ve repeatedly asked, bring some evidence that innocent, non-violent black people are being disproportionately killed by the police, and get this thread at least somewhere near on topic. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Most black dads are not criminals. Are you seriously advocating treating decent black dads more poorly because they share a skin color with others who act badly? No. No, I’m not. I’m suggesting that a greater proportion of black dads are criminals, and are not bringing their children up properly. Including bringing up their children to hate and fear the police, instead of respect them, and blaming the police for the failing of their culture. > [@](#): > > They are killed at a 21 times greater rate. You tried to double the violent crime statistics to fit this, but it made no sense. I guess you’ve abandoned that argument. No, I didn’t double the violent crime statistics. To explain again, young black men are, based on the statistics presented in this thread, 6-14 times more likely to be violent. They are also twice as likely to be criminal. From that, I’m extrapolating that they are twice as likely to come into contact with the police\*, so the police are 12-28 times as likely to come into contact with a violent young black man. Which fits perfectly. > [@](#): > > Would any disparity be acceptable to you? If young black males were killed 1000 times more than young white males, would you think this is absolutely fine? Already answered that. No, I wouldn’t think it was fine, I didn’t think 21x was fine until I actually read the facts and statistics. \*In reality, young black men are vastly more than twice as likely to come into contact with the police, and here is where racism does come into play. But, as the police are _not_ killing a disproportionate amount, one can reasonably conclude that when they come into contact with a young black man who is not a violent criminal, they are not killing them at any greater rate than other non-violent non-criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/376 "2014-10-16T14:20:55Z")
I don’t understand how doing something to one group at a rate 50% to 250% greater than another group is _not_ disproportionate. But then again I also don’t understand how you can be 6 times warier. What is the basic unit of wariness and how is it measured? What’s a basic level of wariness? What’s a situation where one might be 5 times warier? What about 10 times? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/377 "2014-10-16T14:21:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The statistics are about the rate black _people_ are killed, not black _criminals_. You’re using the one to excuse the other, and even then, you’re saying you don’t mind if police are far more likely to kill a black criminal than a white one - based on criminal convictions of other people of the same race, I guess. So bring some statistics that show non-violent young black men not under investigation for crime are being disproportionately killed by the cops. Because the statistics fit perfectly with what would be expected given the disparity in overall criminality and violence of the particular demographic of young black men. Why, incidentally, is everyone focussing on the race, not the age or gender component? Why is it somehow fine to say that young people are more violent than older, and that men are more violent than women, but not that blacks are more violent than whites? It’s utterly hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/378 "2014-10-16T14:27:01Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, it’s 6 to 14. You provide a cite that estimated 6-9, someone else one that said 14. My cites were based on statistics. The 14 was based on nothing. > [@](#): > > Because it’s bang in the middle of 12-28, the expected amount of times more likely it is for the police to encounter a violent young black man than young white one. As I’ve explained. Learn statistics before talking about them. Why did you double the value? Explain it. I understand statistics, and don’t understand why the disparity in crime statistics gets doubled for the expected amount of times a cop would encounter it. > [@](#): > > Yes, either of those figures would make me think “maybe”. In fact, 21x made me think “maybe”, so I followed this thread with interest to see whether it was, in fact, the case. It isn’t, it’s (rather shockingly, I’ll admit) a reasonable amount to expect, based on the increased likelihood of young black men coming to the attention of the police, and the vastly increased likelihood of them being violent. Explain the math. Where does 12-28 come from? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/379 "2014-10-16T14:27:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A cop should approach the car with a 20 year old white male _exactly the same_ as he approaches the car with a 20 year old black male. Do you disagree? It depends. I know you want to ignore this point, but it’s an important one. I would agree if both men were dressed in Brooks Brothers suits and ties and driving Volvos. These cues, as examples, override other cues that may be given off by race Now, could you please opine on my example: Should a cop be expected to approach a car driven by an 85 year-old woman the same we he would approach a car driven by a 20-year-old male? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156/380 "2014-10-16T14:29:48Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So bring some statistics that show non-violent young black men not under investigation for crime are being disproportionately killed by the cops. There’s no such data on a national scale. As I’ve mentioned over and over, it’s very hard to find solid data about people being killed by police. You might think that people who are unconcerned about the racism issue would still think that’s a problem, but it’s interesting to note that people who dismiss the racism issue are also uninterested in that issue (unless they think they can use it to dismiss the racism part). We can find anecdotal instances of unarmed people being harmed or killed by the police, but there are no national statistics. > [@](#): > > Because the statistics fit perfectly with what would be expected given the disparity in overall criminality and violence of the particular demographic of young black men. They don’t fit perfectly at all. You’re stipulating to that, but dismissing it at the same time. > [@](#): > > Why, incidentally, is everyone focussing on the race, not the age or gender component? Another person joins the ‘I want to talk about something other than the thread topic’ parade. Perhaps you should start that thread if you find the subject interesting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-young-black-men-in-the-us-21x-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-police-than-young-white-men/701156.md?page=20)