# Why aren't all ships icebreakers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 27, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557 "2016-06-27T20:40:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/21 "2016-06-28T07:44:42Z")
NOte that the wikipedia list of ships sunk by collisions with icebergs has only 27 ships on it, dating back nearly 200 years. It says it’s a non-exhaustive list, but that suggests collisions with icebergs is not a major risk to ships. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/22 "2016-06-28T09:03:54Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Sofas aren’t necessarily that heavy. Me and a buddy were able to move both of my sofas easily enough. I’m not sure a body builder would be able to one man lift a full-sized sofa in a way that would allow him to finesse it through a doorway. [link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=796691) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/23 "2016-06-28T17:35:21Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > NOte that the wikipedia list of ships sunk by collisions with icebergs has only 27 ships on it, dating back nearly 200 years. It says it’s a non-exhaustive list, but that suggests collisions with icebergs is not a major risk to ships. So what you’re saying is that we’d be much better off fitting all ocean-going ships with anti-submarine weapons, since far more ships have been sunk by submarines? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/24 "2016-06-28T19:01:10Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Now if only we could do something with interdimensional travel… Doctor Strange on a Train? ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/25 "2016-06-28T19:24:19Z")
Why don’t airliners have ejection seats? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/26 "2016-06-28T20:25:01Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Doctor Strange on a Train? I’m more of a Hank Pym/Quantum Realm guy myself. > [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Why don’t airliners have ejection seats? If they did, I’d use it every time a baby starts crying or the guy next to me starts sawing logs, and definitely next time I have to sit on the tarmac for 45 minutes because they can’t find an open gate. Seriously, WTF? There are five open gates over there. Just pull up to one. They’re not going to shoot your tires out. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/27 "2016-06-28T22:33:13Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You might as well ask why all cars aren’t tanks. … you know, why \*aren’t \*all cars tanks ?! Never get stuck in traffic again. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/28 "2016-06-28T22:52:32Z")
Except when all cars are tanks, all the other cars are tanks. Maybe your tank can crush cars but can it crush other tanks? Back to icebreakers: icebreakers are not resistant to icebergs. So there you go. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/29 "2016-06-28T23:08:25Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Except when all cars are tanks, all the other cars are tanks. Maybe your tank can crush cars but can it crush other tanks? That’s what the big gun on top is for. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/30 "2016-06-28T23:16:57Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > That’s what the big gun on top is for. Then you WILL be stuck in traffic since none of the other destroyed tanks husks can ever move out of your way. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/31 "2016-06-28T23:37:46Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > … you know, why \*aren’t \*all cars tanks ?! Never get stuck in traffic again. > [@74westy](#): > > That’s what the big gun on top is for. Driving around Panama City, I often wish I had a [technical.](http://cdn.warontherocks.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Technical14.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/32 "2016-06-29T00:07:48Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > That’s what the big gun on top is for. Presumably that’s what the other tank drivers would consider their big gun on top to be good for also. This is going to get interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/33 "2016-06-29T01:16:11Z")
“But, you know, the suit can take the weight, right? So I take the tank, drop it right off at the general’s palace, drop it at his feet. I’m, like, ‘Boom. Are you looking for this?’…‘Boom. Are you looking for…’ Why do I even talk to you guys? Everyone else, that story kills.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/34 "2016-06-29T01:46:52Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Except when all cars are tanks, all the other cars are tanks. Maybe your tank can crush cars but can it crush other tanks? Oh, that’s not what I was thinking. But a tank can say “you know what ? Fuck roads” and get away with it right through the highway concrete barrier :). Also take shortcuts through people’s houses. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/35 "2016-06-29T02:15:20Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh, that’s not what I was thinking. But a tank can say “you know what ? Fuck roads” and get away with it right through the highway concrete barrier :). Also take shortcuts through people’s houses. You gotta be careful on the angle you hit those barriers. Might get stuck like [this guy.](http://www.memoryade.com/uploads/962833203abc_archive_WNBM5169A_005_wg.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/36 "2016-06-29T02:20:07Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Ask yourself this…how many ships are sunk yearly because of icebergs? Looks to me like that number is pretty small (vanishingly small in fact), so you are trying to solve a problem (by having all ships be ‘icebreakers’) that isn’t actually a problem. And the ‘solution’ is going to cost a lot of money for very little, or no, gain. And that’s the answer. It’s essentially zero. It has been greatly diminished since the International Ice Patrol was instituted in the immediate wake of the Titanic disaster. US Coast Guard cutters, and later a/c, locate and broadcast the position of bergs which drift into North Atlantic sea lanes. The degree of safety increased further with radar and electronic positioning devices since WWII. Iceberg danger to ships in normal sea lanes is a solved problem. Icebergs can be a threat to floating or fixed oil drilling vessels/structures in arctic waters which can’t move out of the way. It’s addressed by some combination of building barriers on the bottom in shallow water, or using oil field tug/supply vessels to push on the bergs and alter their courses to not hit the drilling vessels/platforms. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/37 "2016-06-29T02:24:35Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I actually had occasion to learn about this recently. The Coast Guard wants a new icebreaker that will displace around 12,000 tons and cost about $1 billion. > > Looking at the Wikipedia page for Maersk Triple E class container ships, they displace 55,000 tons and cost under $200 million. > > Just throwing that out there. It costs 3-4 times as much to build a container ship in the US as South Korea where the Maersk ships were built. The USCG icebreaker would be built in the US, though the multiple of cost for a one-off like that might not be quite as high. Anyway as has been mentioned, icebreakers cannot safely run into icebergs at high speed. The solution to ships and icebergs is to avoid hitting them, as has been virtually 100% successfully done since the Titanic disaster and especially in recent decades. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/38 "2016-06-29T02:45:29Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh, that’s not what I was thinking. But a tank can say “you know what ? Fuck roads” and get away with it right through the highway concrete barrier :). Also take shortcuts through people’s houses. Any responsible home owner will have decorative Czech Hedgehogs and AT guns on their lawns to fend off exactly your sort of person. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/39 "2016-06-29T13:03:21Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > Cars have airbags even though most of them will never be in an accident, ships have lifeboats even though most of them will never need them, planes have airbags for waterlandings and some parachutes even though most planes don’t crash, most of us have insurance for a variety of things that will never happen to us and a fire extinguisher for that non-existent fire that will never happen to our homes or office buildings. It seems like all ships should be required to have iceberg-proof and rock-proof hulls by design. Think of it as insurance, if the boat crashes and sinks, that’s probably going to be more expensive than getting a new boat and paying off the survivors. > If not, it certainly should be Why don’t all cars have roll-cages and all drivers and passengers use fire-retardant suits? Most cars don’t roll and catch fire, but some do. Think of it as insurance. Cost-benefit analyses can’t be handwaved the way you did here. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557/40 "2016-06-29T14:09:40Z")
Wikipedia lists 5 ships sunk by icebergs in the hundred or so years since the Titanic. 2007 Explorer 1991 Finnpolaris 1977 William Carson 1959 Hans Hedtoft 1923 Le Raymound Consulting The Google, it seems that there are somewhere between 50,000 and 150,000 ships on the ocean, depending on whose numbers you use. Whatever numbers you use, the percentage isn’t quite zero, but it’s awfully damn close to it. The 1959 sinking of the Hans Hedtoft was the last sinking that resulted in any casualties. The 2007 sinking of the Explorer is regarded as suspicious by some experts. The ship was designed for arctic and antarctic cruises, and was designed to handle ice (it routinely crunched through ice and therefore probably fits the OP’s definition of an ice breaker). The ship had multiple compartments that could be sealed, and could handle one compartment flooding completely. It’s not clear if the seals between compartments failed or if the damage affected more than one compartment. [QUOTE=wikipedia] Explorer was designed, like most ships, with compartments which could be sealed off by watertight doors; the ship would not sink if holed and one compartment flooded, but was not safe if more compartments were flooded, either by a gash spanning compartments or imperfect sealing between compartments. GAP reported that there was a crack in addition to the hole, but it is not clear if it spanned compartments.[31] In an article published on 8 December 2007, experts consider that Explorer was “perfect for ice navigation”, and consider that the explanation of the sinking “doesn’t add up” and that “essential pieces of the story are missing”.[32] [/QUOTE] So, even designing a ship as an icebreaker per the OP isn’t always enough to prevent a sinking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-all-ships-icebreakers/758557.md?page=3)