Recording all sexual encounters on video would help somewhat, but it wouldn’t eliminate the problem. There are still going to be some cases where you can’t really tell.
Still. since there might be division over who should hold this evidence ( and what they might do with it, such as go straight online or be sold on ) in a poor economy this could be a goldmine for a guild of professional sex cameramen ready to be hired at a moment’s notice everywhere, everytime, on a mandatory basis,for a couple of dollars who could stand to one side and record all, and provide permanent storage along with their oath that the films would only be seen on official demand by cops or courts.
Yes, there are. At least for the purposes of state university enrollment.
NM–wrong forum
Do you really think the standard for discipline by a university should be guilt, proven beyond a reasonable doubt, of a crime?
Adults conduct themselves this way in the real world. Employers regularly discipline employees for illegal acts, based on internal disciplinary hearings that do not hinge on the results of a criminal trial. Whether you broke a work or school rule is not the same question as whether you can be proven guilty of a crime.
I don’t know of any normal employer outside of academia that would consider investigating and punishing an alleged rape without involving the police.
I can think of several. I think it’s pretty common.
Even assuming that the company calls the police against the victim’s wishes, what do you think they do when the alleged victim doesn’t cooperate? Or when the alleged rapist is acquitted? It’s one think to say colleges shouldn’t discourage victims from making a police report- they absolutely shouldn’t and neither should employers. It’s quite another to say they shouldn’t take any action until and unless there is a conviction.
I go to your boss and say you stole my car. Should they take action against you? What if I say I don’t want to call the police? What kind of investigation are you going to do?
If you are an at will employee you can be fired for any reason at any time, but if you have a contract you can sue if you haven’t been fired for cause, and an unsupportable allegation of a crime is not cause. Students have a contract with the college they attend, the school has no right to make up their terms of that contract.
Colleges and students are not special snowflakes that can ignore the laws the rest of us must follow and make up their own.
It *has *happened to me (I’ve shared this here before and didn’t want to hijack the thread). And how is reporting it to the school in the hopes of justice not going to result in all your peers finding out? If you go to the police, unless the papers somehow get hold of it (as they did in my case), how would anyone find out? I’d think getting the school involved is a sure fire way to make sure the whole campus hears about it. In any case, when something like that happens I suppose the victim has to handle it the way she sees fit, but it still doesn’t make sense to me.
You know what a standard of proof is, right? And that differing ones apply in different situations? Nobody is talking about “unsupportable allegations.” We are talking about allegations which cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but which nonetheless can be proven to the extent necessary to satisfy the school’s code of conduct.
I go to my boss and say you punched me in the face while at the work location. I don’t want to call the police. They do an investigation and decide that you more likely than not did punch me in the face. They fire you. Absolutely legal for them to do that. Even if , unlike most people in the USA, you have a contract that only allows you to be fired for cause. Sure you can sue, but unless the contract states you can only be fired for a conviction you will most likely lose due to the differences in the standard and burden of proof between the criminal courts and civil courts*. Oh, and just because an allegation cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt doesn’t mean it’s “unsupportable”
You might disagree, but that’s the way it is
And at every school I’ve encountered, from pre-K to graduate schools there is a notification during the admissions/enrollment process that violation of the rules may result in suspension/expulsion with no refund of tuition.
- If you sue the employer for wrongful discharge, **you **have to prove that they wrongly discharged you by a preponderance of the evidence. They don’t actually have to prove anything - but if they can prove you did assault me by hte preponderance of the evidence . you will lose the lawsuit *even if there was not enough evidence for a criminal conviction. *
It’s also creepy as all hell.
Her: Wait, what are you doing? Is that a camera? I’m sorry we just met and I don’t want you filming us having sex.
You: Yeah, that’s kind of the deal. This way I have evidence that it was consensual. While we’re getting the technicalities out of the way, would you mind signing this waiver, that if you get pregnant, that I am not held liable for any obligations associated with any child that may come from our intercourse? You don’t have to read it all, just sign on the bottom of page 4. Nice panties!
Right – the school is put in the position of having its funding tied up with whether or not it shows someone at the Department that they are Taking Sexual Assault Seriously. Mostly as a reaction to how for a long time historically they did not do so (and DID actively dissuade official reporting of campus crime in general until relatively recently). Your Mileage WILL Vary as to how well any given school complies even to this day.
But sure, this then creates a question of whether now you find yourself in backlash mode and some schools would be pressured to prove they’re Taking This Seriously by adopting a presumption in favor of being highly aggressive at imposing punishment.
As others have mentioned, you cannot really compel a victim to cooperate with the investigation, be it institutional OR official police/judiciary. OTOH it’s not feasible either to go to the opposite extreme and create an expectation in the victim that there exists a mechanism by which her redress will be taken care of without her having to do more than report. And you just know that there will always be those who will NOT be satisfied that an internal accusation could be fair if the accused was cleared.
I think what that poster meant was that if s/he was a victim of rape or some other violent crime, if s/he contacts anybody, s/he will be calling the police and not campus security.
ETA: I then read the rest of the thread.
A scenario that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. The whole point is that people are already filming this sort of thing. They already don’t think it’s creepy. It’s increasingly becoming more normal.
Plus, if only one party were filming, it would obviously be the person who didn’t want to be raped. You made it the other party just to make it seem creepier. And added bullshit MRA stereotypes to make it even worse.
I’m talking about a trend. A trend where people are increasingly more comfortable with being filmed. A trend where people are more and more depending on video to help stop crimes. A trend where people digitally share their sexual activity.
It obviously won’t happen as long as people still think it’s creepy. But that’s not a given.
Just because you and some people you know video their sexitimes doesn’t mean everyone else is
Wanting everyone to video their sexual encounters for the world to see is a “worse” idea.
I think it is a given. The vast majority of people not in porn don’t video their sexual encounters. If they didn’t think it was creepy they’d already be doing it. I couldn’t find any video of sexual encounters from people I knew back in high school on the internet.
And believe me, I tried!