# Why aren't British and American English considered separate languages? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313 "2014-10-24T01:41:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HowSoonIsThen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@HowSoonIsThen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowSoonIsThen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/1 "2014-10-24T01:41:00Z")
From what I understand, the difference between American and British English is greater than the difference between many European languages (such as Serbian and Croatian). So why are the European languages considered separate, but the variants of English aren’t? Is it just because instead of calling the languages “English” and “American”, we called them “British English” and “American English”? Wouldn’t it solve many of the arguments between Americans and Brits if we just agreed they’re two similar, but different languages? I know there are other versions of English, but these are the main two. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/2 "2014-10-24T02:02:23Z")
Actually, Serbian and Croatian are often considered varieties of the same language, [Serbo-Croatian.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbo-Croatian) Where to draw the line between dialects and languages is arbitrary, but hardly anyone would draw it between forms so similar as the standard forms of British and American English. [QUOTE=HowSoonIsThen] I know there are other versions of English, but these are the main two. [/QUOTE] Hardly. This assumes that there’s a single form of British English, and a single form of American. A number of forms of English in the British Isles have a much greater call to be considered separate languages, and sometimes are, such as[Scots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language) (not to be confused with Scottish Gaelic). Jamaican Creole is also as different from other dialects of English as Haitian Creole is from French, and the latter two are often considered separate languages. If you considered all the forms of English that are as different from each other as standard British and standard American as separate languages, there would probably be dozens of them. ---
**Author:** ![HowSoonIsThen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@HowSoonIsThen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HowSoonIsThen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/3 "2014-10-24T02:11:59Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Actually, Serbian and Croatian are often considered varieties of the same language, [Serbo-Croatian.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbo-Croatian) Well then, it seems the basis of my question was false. I’ve also heard it said about German and Luxembourgish, Swedish and Norwegian, but I’m probably giving too much weight to things “I’ve heard said”. As for calling British and American the main forms of English, I was mainly meaning that they’re the ones I usually see referred to/name dropped the most in disputes about spelling, grammar, etc. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/4 "2014-10-24T02:15:08Z")
Nobody considers Serbian and Croatian to be separate languages except the Serbs and the Croats. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/5 "2014-10-24T02:29:35Z")
> [@HowSoonIsThen](#): > > As for calling British and American the main forms of English, I was mainly meaning that they’re the ones I usually see referred to/name dropped the most in disputes about spelling, grammar, etc. That’s mostly because those are the main ones that actually have a standard written form that includes rules of spelling or grammar. Other dialects or variants of English mostly don’t, so their written forms use the standard rules of American or British. Scots does have a standard modern form, e.g.: > [@](#): > > This is the storie o the birth o Jesus Christ. His mither Mary wis trystit til Joseph, but afore they war mairriet she wis fund tae be wi bairn bi the Halie Spírit. Bit more different, nae? If Jamaican Creole had a standard written form, as Haitian French Creole does, it would very likely be considered a separate language. The Lord’s Prayer in Jamaican Creole (Jamaican Patois): > [@](#): > > Wi Faada we iina evn, > mek piipl av nof rispek fi yu an yu niem. > Mek di taim kom wen yu ruul iina evri wie. > Mek we yu waahn apm pan ort apm, > jos laik ou a wa yu waahn fi apm iina evn apm > Tide gi wi di fuud we wi niid. > Paadn wi fi aal a di rang we wi du, > siem laik ou wi paadn dem we du wi rang. > An no mek wi fies notn we wi kaaz wi fi sin, > bot protek wi fram di wikid wan. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/6 "2014-10-24T02:33:29Z")
Carribean English might as well be a separate language(and it would be more accurate to label each islands variant separately). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/7 "2014-10-24T02:39:33Z")
The quick and dirty way to differentiate languages is to ask if they’re mutually intelligible. A Russian speaker could not understand Basque without taking lessons in it, for instance. Some languages (e.g., French and Spanish) are closely related, but the majority of the words are spelled or pronounced differently. A French speaker may recognize Spanish without training, but she’d have some trouble following it. American and British English are mutually intelligible. Sure, there are some differences in pronunciation – but that’s just a sign of dialect. And there are terms in one that are not the same as the terms for another. But at least 95% of the words of the two are the same. There are always regional variations in languages (e.g., Canadian French vs. French from France), but the vast majority of terms are the same in both, making it the same language. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/8 "2014-10-24T02:47:58Z")
My native language and dialect is Hiberno-English. I have read lots of American literature; I do not regard it as written in a different language; not even close. Likewise I have watched lots of American TV and films; it is just nonsense to suggest that, for me, these are media in another language. I am far more likely to need to have American cultural references explained to me than I am to have American language explained to me. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/9 "2014-10-24T03:01:21Z")
They just aren’t different enough. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/10 "2014-10-24T03:08:13Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The quick and dirty way to differentiate languages is to ask if they’re mutually intelligible. A Russian speaker could not understand Basque without taking lessons in it, for instance. This is one of those “this is true… but” situations. While it’s true that mutual intelligibility is a reasonable heuristic, it’s also true that languages can work on a treadmill of mutual intelligiblity. It’s not necessarily transitive. I might be able to understand a Londoner, and a Londoner might be able to understand someone from Edinburg, who may in turn may be able to understand even a thick Glaswegian accent, but that doesn’t mean I can understand Glaswegian. The boundaries between languages is ultimately fuzzy. English and German are separate languages, but it wouldn’t take as much effort to hammer out some sort of trade language as it would between English and Russian. I can’t understand everyone who ostensible speaks “English”, but there are some people who can easily understand both me and them. There’s an old line that says “a language is a dialect with an army and a navy”, used to joke about why British English and American English are the same while Cantonese and Mandarin are both “Chinese”. While certainly true to a degree, there’s a lot more complexity than that, and you could spend quite a lot of effort just defining what a “language” is. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/11 "2014-10-24T03:10:08Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I am far more likely to need to have American cultural references explained to me than I am to have American language explained to me. I’m working with people in England, Scotland, Australia all the time. We understand each other fine. We spend far more time explaining cultural references and local idioms than clarifying the words spoken. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/12 "2014-10-24T03:13:35Z")
Missed edit: There’s also “one way” intelligibility. My old friend from Azerbaijan once explained to me that Azeri people can generally understand Turks, but not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/13 "2014-10-24T03:28:03Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > There’s an old line that says “a language is a dialect with an army and a navy”, used to joke about why British English and American English are the same while Cantonese and Mandarin are both “Chinese”. That’s an old joke, but I think you told it wrong. By that standard, British and American should be different languages. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/14 "2014-10-24T03:33:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That’s an old joke, but I think you told it wrong. By that standard, British and American should be different languages. Er, yeah, I knew something didn’t sound right. It was the English thing :smack:. It’s usually used to joke about why Cantonese and Mandarin are considered the same while, say, Dutch and German are different\*. - Or insert some other languages. I know some linguists I talked to consider them the same language but I don’t know how mutually intelligible they are. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/15 "2014-10-24T03:42:21Z")
If I watch a CNN or BBC broadcast, I can understand either equally well, with an occasional difference being noted when a local term is used, and mostly just notice a different accent. They aren’t even different dialects. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/16 "2014-10-24T03:47:23Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I know some linguists I talked to consider them the same language but I don’t know how mutually intelligible they are. They’re pretty different to be considered the same language. On the other hand, I understand that Swiss German verges on being a separate language. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/17 "2014-10-24T03:50:56Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I know some linguists I talked to consider them the same language but I don’t know how mutually intelligible they are. They’re pretty different to be considered the same language. On the other hand, I understand that Swiss German verges on being a separate language. > [@](#): > > It’s usually used to joke about why Cantonese and Mandarin are considered the same while, say, Dutch and German are different\*. The [comment seems to have originated in the 1940s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_language_is_a_dialect_with_an_army_and_navy) but without reference to specific examples. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/18 "2014-10-24T03:59:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m working with people in England, Scotland, Australia all the time. We understand each other fine. We spend far more time explaining cultural references and local idioms than clarifying the words spoken. I used to know a guy from Australia and I think the 95% the same thing is correct, but you have to stop him all the time to say “whut?”. Off the top of my head what business is Maccas? What is a mozzie? It is mostly slang but it can make a conversation unintelligible. Putting it in real world terms it isn’t a different language, but there is a steep learning curve and no guarantee other English speakers from around the world will understand everything you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/19 "2014-10-24T04:09:01Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Off the top of my head what business is Maccas? Mickey D’s. > [@](#): > > What is a mozzie? A skeeter. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/20 "2014-10-24T04:13:34Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Mickey D’s. > > A skeeter. If you’re trying to prove people in the south don’t speak English…😃 I guess the lesson all around is cut the slang if speaking to an international audience. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313.md?page=2)