# Why aren't British and American English considered separate languages? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313 "2014-10-24T01:41:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/81 "2014-10-26T10:40:05Z")
The mere fact that there is a code to be switched means it’s the same language. I’d be surprised if the longest sentence that works in both English and German is more than four words. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/82 "2014-10-26T11:11:53Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > The mere fact that there is a code to be switched means it’s the same language. The [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching) actually has a good explanation of code switching. Even a cursory reading will show that your assertion is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/83 "2014-10-26T11:23:53Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > It’s like someone writing “I’m glad the weather is cool today, because I want to wear the kewl hoodie I got at Comic Con.” Yes, “kewl” would be marked wrong by an English teacher, but everybody knows what it means, and it would be a different kind of wrong to describe the temperature as “kewl.” And some people (including some whose only language is English) are pronouncing those differently, because they’re applying phonics and don’t realize that the “oo” and “ew” groups can transliterate the same sound (m-w draws it as \ü, dunnow if that matches IPA); they’re reading that “ew” as being “like in pew”, which is one of the cases where “ew” doesn’t sound like “oo”. I never would have thought that a shift in spelling could lead to one in pronunciation, that completely floored me. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/84 "2014-10-26T13:07:02Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > IAre Spanish and Portuguese mutually intelligible? I’ve yet to meet a Brazilian who wasn’t fluent in both. And do Latin American Spanish-speakers giggle at each other’s accents? I have, but Spanish is the most commonly-studied second language in Brazil, so about anybody who is college-educated will speak it. Italian is more mutually-intelligible with Spanish so long as the Hispanics are careful about word choice (pick the word with the Latin or Greek roots, not the one we nabbed from someplace else), but then, I understand that Italian is generally quite intelligible for about any speakers of Romance languages. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/85 "2014-10-26T14:49:22Z")
> [@naita](#): > > I’m not entirely sure what you intended to convey here, but Old English to anyone looks like this: > > > [@](#): > > > > Ær þæm þe Romeburg getimbred wære iiii hunde wintrum 7 hundeahtatigum, Uesoges, Egypta cyning, wæs winnende of suðdæle Asiam, oð him se mæsta dæl wearð underþieded. 7 he Uesoges, Egypta cyning, wæs siþþan mid firde farende on Sciþþie on ða norðdælas, 7 his ærendracan beforan asende to þære ðeode, 7 him untweogendlice secgan het þæt hie [oðer] sceolden, oþþe ðæt lond æt him alesan, oþþe he hie wolde mid gefeohte fordon 7 forherigan. Hie him þa gesceadwislice ondwyrdon, 7 cwædon þæt hit gemalic wære 7 unryhtlic þæt swa > > Ær þæm þe Romeburg getimbred wære iiii hunde wintrum 7 hundeahtatigum, Uesoges, Egypta cyning, wæs winnende of suðdæle Asiam, oð him se mæsta dæl wearð underþieded. 7 he Uesoges, Egypta cyning, wæs siþþan mid firde farende on Sciþþie on ða norðdælas, 7 his ærendracan beforan asende to þære ðeode, 7 him untweogendlice secgan het þæt hie [oðer] sceolden, oþþe ðæt lond æt him alesan, oþþe he hie wolde mid gefeohte fordon 7 forherigan. Hie him þa gesceadwislice ondwyrdon, 7 cwædon þæt hit gemalic wære 7 unryhtlic þæt swa No one gets that old English looked like this. Having had some limited exposure to old English, I can tell you some of the words for the in this passage, and the words for king (an Egyptian one?), hundred, was, Rome, and before. Most people will only be able to figure out he and him, and will be led astray thinking some of the other words mean what they do now, like “hit” and “mid.” ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/86 "2014-10-26T15:01:20Z")
I’m not sure if this has been made clear or not in this thread, but there is no hard and fast line between saying that two varieties are different dialects of a single language or two distinct languages. There are examples of two varieties differing by a whole spectrum of possible amounts, so it’s arbitrary to say whether a given amount of difference is sufficient to make two varieties different languages. Yes, the rule is that if two varieties aren’t mutually intelligible that they are different languages, but there are example of two varieties being intelligible or unintelligible by a wide spectrum of amounts. Incidentally, I’m using the word “variety” because that leaves open whether the two varieties should be thought of as dialects or languages. There are also cases of dialect continua: > **[Dialect continuum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect_continuum)** > > A dialect continuum or dialect chain is a series of language varieties spoken across some geographical area such that neighboring varieties are mutually intelligible, but the differences accumulate over distance so that widely separated varieties may not be. This is a typical occurrence with widely spread languages and language families around the world, when these languages did not spread recently. Some prominent examples include the Indo-Aryan languages across large parts of India, varieties... ---
**Author:** ![MacLir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MacLir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacLir)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/87 "2014-10-27T14:20:27Z")
A couple of other people’s observations on English: “The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.” - James D. Nicoll “English is the result of Norman men-at-arms trying to make dates with Saxon barmaids, and no more legitimate than any of the other results.” - H. Beam Piper ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/88 "2014-10-27T14:45:44Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > I wouldn’t say that. Sweden and Norway share a very long border - they’re right next to each other. Denmark, however, is all the way down _there_, across the water. Only in the sense that Manhattan is way down across the water from Brooklyn. Go to Google Earth and zoom in on Copenhagen. It has one of two bridges that connect the two countries. Jutland juts up and Sweden juts down a lot farther than you think, and there’s a huge island between them that connects to both by bridges. And while Sweden and Norway have a long border, no one lives near most of it. Kind of like Minnesota and North Dakota, and for much the same reason, and with basically the same accents. (See how I brought that back full circle?) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/89 "2014-10-27T15:16:18Z")
**Horatio** , I know what you’re talking about only because I do know it… The Malmö bridge (Øresundsbron, “bridge over the Öre/Øre strait”) consists of a tunnel starting right beside Copenhaguen’s airport, to an artificial island, then a bridge to Malmö. The landmass where Copenhaguen is isn’t part of the European mainland, but a huge island. That island has a second bridge west, joining it to Jutland (the part of Denmark which is actually on mainland Europe). Both bridges are quite spectacular. There is a project for a third bridge: south of the island, joining it to Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/90 "2014-10-27T17:22:28Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > It’s usually used to joke about why Cantonese and Mandarin are considered the same. Mandarin and Cantonese script is largely similar, because Mandarin was written first, with edicts radiating to the provinces. People in the provinces adopted the script, first by learning to read Mandarin script using Cantonese words, and later adopting that to write Cantonese. A friend who grew up in Vietnam tells me that Vietnamese was also written in the same script (archaically, that orthography was replaced by a phonetic script created by French linguists.) If I remember correctly, kids of the 60’s learned both scripts, along with French and/or English. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > No. If it was spelled “shoppe”, it’s because at one time there was a vowel sound at the end in whatever English dialect was being transcribed. Probably not “ee” sound, but could have been an “uh” or schwa e sound. English doesn’t have it’s weird spelling system because people were sloppy. Well, you’re wrong that people weren’t sloppy. I was amazed at the inconsistent spelling by Jefferson (a highly educated person and a great writer) in his letters to Lewis & Clark, in their journals (from an abridged version available in paperback and very interesting). I’ll have to reread to see if it’s a case of inflection. But there are definitely cases where pronunciations have changed but spelling hasn’t. For example, “often”, which was pronounced with the ‘t’ when its spelling was established, but because most people were illiterate, the ‘t’ dropped in pronunciation. That became the standard pronunciation even among the literate. But recently, the ‘t’ sound is coming back, because people read it. It’s perfectly plausible that “shoppe” originally had two syllables or some other quirk that caused them to append the ‘e’. But I think it’s also possible that people added e’s to the ends of lots of words for other reasons, or no good reason at all. Shakespeare was inconsistent, spelling a word different ways even on the same page (as did Jefferson in the letters I mentioned above). He didn’t even spell his name consistently. Why the ‘e’ at the end of his name? It certainly wasn’t pronounced, at least, if we can credit most of his other spellings. > [@MacLir](#): > > “The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.” - James D. Nicoll > > “English is the result of Norman men-at-arms trying to make dates with Saxon barmaids, and no more legitimate than any of the other results.” - H. Beam Piper LOL - thanks for sharing those! ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/91 "2014-10-27T17:25:42Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Only in the sense that Manhattan is way down across the water from Brooklyn. Go to Google Earth and zoom in on Copenhagen. It has one of two bridges that connect the two countries. Jutland juts up and Sweden juts down a lot farther than you think, and there’s a huge island between them that connects to both by bridges. Plus, don’t both populations spend about half their waking hours muddling around in boats? ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/92 "2014-10-27T21:43:58Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **Horatio** , I know what you’re talking about only because I do know it… > > The Malmö bridge (Øresundsbron, “bridge over the Öre/Øre strait”) consists of a tunnel starting right beside Copenhaguen’s airport, to an artificial island, then a bridge to Malmö. The landmass where Copenhaguen is isn’t part of the European mainland, but a huge island. That island has a second bridge west, joining it to Jutland (the part of Denmark which is actually on mainland Europe). Both bridges are quite spectacular. > > There is a project for a third bridge: south of the island, joining it to Germany. I’m going to nitpick a little bit (I used to live in the Limhamn area of Malmö, very close to the Swedish landfall of the bridge). Sjaelland (or Zealand), the island on which Copenhagen is situated, does not have a bridge to Jutland, but to the intervening island of Fyn. This bridge, like the Öresund bridge, is incredibly visually inspiring. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/93 "2014-10-27T23:12:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m working with people in England, Scotland, Australia all the time. We understand each other fine. We spend far more time explaining cultural references and local idioms than clarifying the words spoken. fair dinkum ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/94 "2014-10-28T00:10:49Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > A friend who grew up in Vietnam tells me that Vietnamese was also written in the same script (archaically, that orthography was replaced by a phonetic script created by French linguists.) If I remember correctly, kids of the 60’s learned both scripts, along with French and/or English. Korea used Chinese script, too, until the Hangul script was invented and widely used. > [@](#): > > Well, you’re wrong that people weren’t sloppy. I was amazed at the inconsistent spelling by Jefferson (a highly educated person and a great writer) in his letters to Lewis & Clark, in their journals (from an abridged version available in paperback and very interesting). I’ll have to reread to see if it’s a case of inflection. It’s not sloppy to do something that was commonplace. You’re imposing a 19th/20th century mentality on 18th century practices. These guys owned slaves. How does that stack up to what we think of as normal today? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/95 "2014-10-28T12:34:17Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > And I believe Scots and English also exist in a language continuum. J. Random American speaks a language that is quite different from Scots and not very mutually intelligible. A Glaswegian speaking English probably speaks a dialect that is quite similar to Scots in many ways, including grammar, vocabulary, and pronunciation. Of people who speak honest-to-goodness Scots as their primary language, there’s also going to be a continuum where the more educated Scots speakers probably speak with more of an English influence that would render them quite capable of speaking with Scots-influenced English speakers of Glasgow and a fair amount of capability in speaking with Americans and Aussies. Ye ken nu, laddie? I doubt there’s anyone now who speaks Scots as a primary language. It’s impossible to gte data on how many people actually speak Scots, even though it was actually included in the 2011 census, because lots of people see “Scots” and think “Scottish English,” even in Scotland, so tick yes. But many if not most of them would be at a loss if they read or heard actual Scots, while most of those who do actually speak some Scots are probably not fluent in it, they just learnt to recite some Rabbie Burns at school. Unless they’re from the Highlands, but that’s a small population compared to the Borders and the major cities. And a Glaswegian on an airline would definitely be speaking Scottish English to the passengers, not Scots. Due to the nature of her job, she’d be using grammar and vocabulary that are the same in almost every English-speaking country. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/96 "2014-10-28T22:08:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Korea used Chinese script, too, until the Hangul script was invented and widely used. Korea continued to use 漢子 until quite some time after the invention of 한글. Through the very early 1980s, Korean writing was done similar to way Japanese writing is done now–a mixture of Chinese characters and native script. Actually, you can still see Chinese characters used occasionally in Korea to clarify something in print. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/97 "2014-10-29T01:56:48Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > I wouldn’t say that. Sweden and Norway share a very long border - they’re right next to each other. Denmark, however, is all the way down _there_, across the water. The centers of population are farther apart, no? Places like Skåne fill the gap culturally if not linguistically, but overall Norway sits in the middle. > [@](#): > > If you can find the cite, lemme know. 'Til then, I’ll go with my gut and assume - based on personal experience - that it’s a myth. Aha! I should checked Wikipedia! I don’t think it is the same study as I same indirectly earlier, but [same/similar results](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Germanic_languages#Mutual_intelligibility): Norwegians’ comprehension is best and Danish worst, but good all around. Precise cites are linked, e.g. Delsing & Åkesson (2005). > [@Monty](#): > > Korea continued to use 漢子 until quite some time after the invention of 한글. Through the very early 1980s, Korean writing was done similar to way Japanese writing is done now–a mixture of Chinese characters and native script. Actually, you can still see Chinese characters used occasionally in Korea to clarify something in print. Interestingly, North Korea was more “progressive” in this respect. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/98 "2014-10-29T05:05:05Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Interestingly, North Korea was more “progressive” in this respect. Not all that progressive, really. [North Korean students are required to learn more Chinese characters for use in Korean than South Korean students are](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanja#North). ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/99 "2014-10-29T20:31:50Z")
Quick goggling says there are estimated to be a little more than one million words currently in the English language, with of course new ones being added daily. Of that, I’d guess north of 99% are not “American English words” or “British English words”, but just English. Grammatical differences, AP style, etc., are also pretty minimal. In the US, Coca-Cola pays its workers whereas in the UK Coca-Cola pays their workers. It’s a front side of one sheet kind of thing. Seems like you’re asking why a certain person and his brother aren’t completely different species. Why would they be? ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313/100 "2014-10-29T21:11:14Z")
> [@HowSoonIsThen](#): > > From what I understand, the difference between American and British English is greater than the difference between many European languages (such as Serbian and Croatian). So why are the European languages considered separate, but the variants of English aren’t? Is it just because instead of calling the languages “English” and “American”, we called them “British English” and “American English”? > > Wouldn’t it solve many of the arguments between Americans and Brits if we just agreed they’re two similar, but different languages? > > I know there are other versions of English, but these are the main two. If I were to hazard a guess, it’s because you can put an American and a Briton together, and they would be perfectly able to communicate with one another. Sure there might be a few minor differences (rotary, roundabout; elevator, lift; apartment, flat; &c.), but they aren’t significant enough to make them unintelligible to each other, unlike say, English and Frisian. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-british-and-american-english-considered-separate-languages/702313.md?page=6)