# Why aren't cars with "sovereign citizen" plates summarily impounded and drivers charged? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 9, 2025, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658 "2025-07-09T13:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2025, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/21 "2025-07-11T18:51:57Z")
Yeah, FAFO. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2025, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/22 "2025-07-12T02:10:31Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I saw a thread about the picture in the OP. It may have been the same reddit thread I didn’t check. JFTR it was r/nova (Northern Virginia) and photo was taken on a Virginia road. > **[Reddit - The heart of the internet](https://www.reddit.com/r/nova/comments/1lvhi2n/can_we_kill_this_movement_now/)** ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2025, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/23 "2025-07-12T16:12:09Z")
A friend of mine told me about an encounter with police decades ago. He was pulled over on the freeway by a police officer, he had out-of-province plates which had expired over 6 months prior. (and hence, no insurance) He says he told the cop “Look, that’s my future father-in-law in the car, I have to take him to the airport. Whatever you do will be nothing compared to the grief I’ll get if he misses his flight.” The cop let him go and warned him to get the registration fixed. After all, he wasn’t speeding or driving recklessly or drunk, wasn’t giving the cop a hard time, and I assume the hassles of arranging for a tow truck on a busy freeway etc. were not something that policeman wanted to do at that time. (Maybe it was close to shift change 😃 ) I told him he was lucky. He got the registration fixed soon after. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2025, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/24 "2025-07-12T17:34:58Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > There were a surprising amount of people who believed there was nothing wrong with the picture and that no one had to comply with such laws. I looked it up once and there actually is a federal law that for a couple of violations, it is a defense that you are not engaging in commerce. I should try to find it again but here’s the problem for SovIdiots, it only covers a couple of violations that are illegal under Ferderal law viz, does not apply to any states laws. > [@Loach](#): > > Like I said before I have never seen any car with a plate like that and I’ve been a road officer for the majority of my career. I’ve seen one in all of my years of driving, probably because it is a fairly new cunning plan of SovIts. > [@Loach](#): > > I have only minor brushes with someone I suspect was a sovereign citizen. Question for you: you stop a driver and he starts in with the “I’m not driving, I’m traveling.” and “Who is the victim?” and “That’s statute, that’s not code.” BS. How far are you going in repeating yourself before window breakage and them being dragged out of their car and handcuffed in yours? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/25 "2025-07-12T18:27:24Z")
Do court systems start assigning points against the driver for repeated infractions? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/26 "2025-07-12T19:45:55Z")
In the states I’ve lived in the points are assessed based on the infraction taken in isolation. That is, if you speed 10-19 over it’s 4 points, every time. But after 12 points your license is suspended. I don’t know if the court has any leeway in assigning points. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2025, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/27 "2025-07-12T20:11:40Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Question for you: you stop a driver and he starts in with the “I’m not driving, I’m traveling.” and “Who is the victim?” and “That’s statute, that’s not code.” BS. How far are you going in repeating yourself before window breakage and them being dragged out of their car and handcuffed in yours? It depends on the circumstances. Many SCs tend to be belligerent or even violent towards law enforcement. It is possible to bring up this stupid arguments while being cordial and cooperative. I wouldn’t get into a debate on the law I would just explain what was going to happen. In my state we don’t arrest for motor vehicle violations but if they refuse to identify themselves or refuse to exit the vehicle when ordered (Pennsylvania V Mimms) then an arrest will probably follow. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2025, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/28 "2025-07-12T22:57:25Z")
My contact with sovereign citizens was mostly off the clock. Before my state passed concealed carry I used to open carry as a form of solidarity with folks who couldn’t legally conceal. That’s when I learned that a lot of S.C. types would openly carry not to exercise a right, but to cause commotion and intentionally attract the attention of law enforcement. I found most people oblivious to open carry but the sovereign’s would make sure people saw what they were doing and would do or say things to cause a scene. When I spoke to some of them over the years I learned these weren’t NRA types exercising a right. These were kooks that want justification (at least in their own mind) to file law suites against police, government entities, and private business owners. I’ve been lucky on the job and have had scant contact with them. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/29 "2025-07-13T14:57:01Z")
I’ve never seen such a plate in my state. There’s nothing to be gained from pretending to be a non-citizen. It’s going to cost the nutjob time and money. You can’t successfully sue the city or state for enforcing a valid and established law. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/30 "2025-07-13T15:00:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You can’t successfully sue the city or state for enforcing a valid and established law. They genuinely think they can and are absolutely convinced they will win. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/31 "2025-07-13T15:04:17Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > They genuinely think they can and are absolutely convinced they will win. I expect everybody who commits a crime thinks they can get away with it until they’re caught and have to deal with the consequences. This is akin to spilling a liquid in a grocery story and sueing them for a dangerous hazard. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/32 "2025-07-13T15:24:48Z")
Sovereign citizens aren’t just convinced they are going to win. They are downright delusional in their beliefs. As mentioned before they are belligerent and potentially violent over those beliefs. They are like nothing you’ve dealt with before, trust me on that. ---
**Author:** ![ricepad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@ricepad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricepad)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/33 "2025-07-13T16:23:46Z")
How widespread were sovereign citizens before the internet? I’m sure there had to be some. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/34 "2025-07-13T17:15:09Z")
Survivalists, white separatists, and their ilk. But many of them want to be left alone and stay off the grid. The sovereign’s want to use the grid they claim has no authority to harass the system they claim is illegitimate. They never, ever, ever win but they can’t be convinced of that. And in their way to their defeat they cause a lot of headaches. Imagine waking up tomorrow with 35 lawsuits filed against you, liens on your property, etc and you had to deal with every single one even though they were all frivolous. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/35 "2025-07-13T22:59:35Z")
What is the nature of the lawsuits? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/36 "2025-07-13T23:13:02Z")
In one word? Vexatious. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/37 "2025-07-13T23:13:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What is the nature of the lawsuits? The Gold-fringed flag is a symbol sovereign citizens have fixate on–in courtrooms as elsewhere–because they claim that such flags are military flags, so a fringed flag in a courtroom indicates that the court is a military or admiralty court, not a constitutional court and thus has no jurisdiction over them. [Gold-fringed flag | Center on Extremism](https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/gold-fringed-flag) It gets worse, and courts do not want to waste time and exspense to argue with these people because they will usually end up in court for some other real offense. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2025, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/38 "2025-07-14T01:29:47Z")
Perhaps related, there’s now big signs near the toll plazas in NYC which say: “Counterfeit license plates are illegal, strictly enforced”. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2025, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/39 "2025-07-14T02:08:13Z")
Might be related, but those SC plates are outright in-your-face “Ceci n’est pas une license plate”. There is, however, an epidemic of counterfeit or fraudulent temp tags. But I don’t know how they are going to strictly enforce it when all they have is a photo of a plate that doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2025, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658/40 "2025-07-14T08:37:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I cannot understand how some “sovereign citizens” pulled over for these plates claim that they’ve been driving like that for years. I can. They lie. > [@wolfpup](#): > > How the hell do these sovcits apparently get away for years with plates that basically say “Fuck You”? They don’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-cars-with-sovereign-citizen-plates-summarily-impounded-and-drivers-charged/1020658.md?page=3)