Fair point on Audi and Porsche - I had forgotton those.
Is it not possible that SEAT and Skoda are using older tooling, I think I heard something about that ?
What I think VW does (this is conjecture, based on seeing similar things in different brands over diffrent time periods): When VW is phasing out an older version of the Golf or Passat (is it the 5th generation Golf now), the re-use parts, tools and assembly stuff och dress it up as a new version of the Seat Ibiza, which in turn will show up a couple of years later on a Skoda - or vice versa. Seats aren’t built in Spain, BTW, and Skodas in Czech republic. Räther, similar cars of all brands are assembled in one plant, regardless of brnd. The smaller VW models (Lupo, Polo) are made in Barcelona, IIRC. I use to think that I got an awful lot of VW Passat, when I got my Seat Toledo. Essentially the same car, at 2/3 of the price.
Also, I don’t think they’re cannibalizing, they’re taking segments that othwrwise would be exploited by Fiat the French auto makers or Japanese and Koreans brands.
@Charlie Tan
That is interesting stuff - especially as I’m about to buy a second hand VW or derivative.
Thanks.
I don’t think that’s entirely correct - while VWs are made all over the place, Skodas really are made in eastern Europe and SEATs in Spain. And sometimes one of the lesser brands gets a new platform before VW - the current Skoda Fabia was launched well before the current VW Polo, for example.
Likewise we export Corvettes and Ford GT’s to Europe. But don’t forget the fact that we manufacture cars in Europe for the European market. It makes more sense economically for everyone. Toyota and Kia don’t build cars in the US because the labor’s cheaper, but because overall it’s cheaper. Hell, even Mercedes and BMW have US plants for the same reason. Yeah, you can get American made Mercedes M-Class or American made BMW X5.
Ford and GM got into Europe when they were the only game in town. They’re practically semi-autonomous functional organizations from their parent corporations, although those winds are changing. This led to targeted designs that are appealing to customers where the cars are built. Despite the problems in the USA and the ignorance of many US consumers, “American” cars are healthy, profitable sellers in Europe without any stigma of “bad quality.”
Not true. While it is true that Renault and Nissan are in an Alliance to share technologies, the design responsibilities are totally separate. Nissan cars are designed in Japan and have their own technical centers in North America and Europe. They take their direction from Japanses management and engineers. Similarly all Renault enginnering and management is in the European Union. The Japansese are not designing Renault cars or vice versa. Nissan-Europe actaully competes with Renault in some markets.
What the Alliance does is to give them an advanatage when they place orders with a supplier of componets to their car lines. Together they are huge, as big as either GM or Toyota. When you order that type of volume suppliers bend over backward to get your business and give you cost reductions due to shear volume.
There is also the PRV engine which was used extensively by the French auto manufacturers.
Used in various Renaults, Peugeots, Citroens, Volvos, the Eagle Premier and its clone the Dodge Monaco, even the DeLorean.
Just a quick response to all of this stuff going on here about importing cars and vice versa. I was doing a bit of research into this a while ago, because I was looking into importing my VW Jetta TDI into Germany around 2003 before I moved there, here are some things I learned about it, and the conversions Id have to make (Sorry my apostrophe key isnt working so please bear with me).
Firstly it seems that the US and Germany have different types of standards with regards to emissions with regards to diesel engines and possible petrol too. Most northern European countries tend to place less emphasis on particle emissions (soot from diesel, etc) and more on CO2 and greenhouse gas emissions. Im going from memory so if you think something is wrong here, ill happily concede given adequate proof.
Secondly lighting (in my personal experience) was more stringent in Europe. In order to have my car imported I would have to install a new type of headlamps. In fact, these are generally considered superior to the American DOT standard by most enthusiasts. The actual technology isnt superior, just the DOT standard for beam spreading and such. So Id require new headlights. Secondly Id also require some kind of fog lamps, which my car didnt have. I would also have to have the ability to turn off daytime running lights. With those things installed, it would seem to be pretty straightforward from there on out. I was lucky in this instance since the car was essentially the same to the Bora model in almost every other aspect with regards to safety, etc. Living in Europe you will see the odd American car. They actually arent very rare and are very easy to spot because they have the shorter license plate frame that we use in America. In Europe this necessitates a special plate since here they are usually bigger and longer. In some cities youll see one about every week or so, by walking down the street.
Now for bringing a car into the US, that is a different story. The US requires crash tests for any given model to be sold here. Ive heard of a guy buying several Japanese Supras for that purpose alone so he could import them as a business. However I believe this doesnt apply for antique cars. I remember this from reading a diesel car enthusiasts message board. Several were interested in importing the higher-quality diesel VWs, Mercedes and the like from Europe only to be thwarted by the requirement that you have to crash several before it can be legally registered here.
I have driven SEATs in Brazil (made in Argentina). They are very unique-they seem to combine german handling with and italian-style suspension. I think they would sell in the USA, but competeing here (in the over-crowded) small car market would be tough. And I have a sneaking suspicion that the Michigan congressional delegation is about to make it tougher!
Mock all you want, but the new Citroen C6 is a beautiful machine.
Wow, Alessan, I’ve never seen that before - it’s gorgeous: it looks like it’s an homage to the DS.
It seems the US lost out on the Citroen SM because of its variable bumper height (as a knock on effect of the variable suspension), shame for US dopers.
How popular are French cars in Australia? I remember an article on British Leyland in Australia put the lack of enthusiasm for BL’s car as simply resistance to FWD, despite the fact that every other part of the cars were pretty unexciting. I couldn’t see French cars getting much further.