# Why aren't Military Ranks all the same? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549 "2010-08-26T16:28:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/1 "2010-08-26T16:28:03Z")
I was looking at military ranking the other day and it dawned on me that between the Army, Navy, Airforce, Marines, everyone has different ranks for authority. Wouldn’t it be easier if ALL branches did the exact same ranking system? (Yes, I know impossible to do and stuff.) but it just seems awfully confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/2 "2010-08-26T16:32:44Z")
A lot of it is tradition. Ranks around the world tend to follow a specific pattern. The armies of the world have derived their ranks from the Roman Army, while naval ranks come from the English (I think). Trying to get everyone to dump their tradition would be like trying to get everyone to speak the same language. Should be possible, but it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/3 "2010-08-26T16:35:56Z")
Tradition mostly. Though all of the armed forces use the same [pay grade](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._uniformed_services_pay_grades) scheme, and that can be used to compare ranks between one service and another. It’s another one of those things that’s fairly impenetrable to civilians, but you can be sure that a given serviceman knows the ranks in their own branch of the armed forces, as well as the ranks for any branch that they come into contact with. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/4 "2010-08-26T16:36:48Z")
Who changes? Good luck telling the Marines that they have to use Army ranks! Why would it be easier? To whom? How many people are both soldiers and swabbies at the same time and too slow to memorize rankings? ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/5 "2010-08-26T16:39:55Z")
Can a person in one branch of the military “outrank” someone in another branch and order them around? ETA: Does Col. Sanders outrank Sgt. Slaughter? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/6 "2010-08-26T16:41:50Z")
Tradition, of course, is an enormous factor in the military. And certainly no service is going to do anything that might be seen as knuckling under to another. Interservice rivalry is real. All this has been said above. The real fun comes when you have things like an Army Captain on a Navy ship. Heinlein writes about it in _Starship Troopers_ in a fictionalized space service, but I’m sure the same thing happens in the real World. Can’t have more than one Captain on a ship, so ranks get re-labeled. There’s lots more fun than that. I have a collection of the WWII strip _Male Call_ that has entries devoted to pointing out such niceties. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/7 "2010-08-26T16:43:33Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > I was looking at military ranking the other day and it dawned on me that between the Army, Navy, Airforce, Marines, everyone has different ranks for authority. For officers, at least, it’s pretty standardized. The Army, Marines and Air Force all use the exact same officer ranks and insignia, as do the Navy and Coast Guard. The enlisted ranks are a pretty huge mess, though. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/8 "2010-08-26T17:22:09Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Can a person in one branch of the military “outrank” someone in another branch and order them around? > > ETA: Does Col. Sanders outrank Sgt. Slaughter? A person in one branch does outrank someone of a lower “pay grade” (those are the same across the branches). In terms of ordering them around there are lots of limits even within the branch. If an Air Force captain was inappropriately ordering an Army sergeant to do something, an Army major or higher would likely call very soon. Col Sanders outranks Sgt Slaughter but if he orders him to kill chickens in his side business, there will be trouble with the legality of the order. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/9 "2010-08-26T17:30:42Z")
I remember an episode of Gomer Pyle, USMC, where Sgt Carter ordered Pyle to guard the front gate and not allow anyone in without proper ID (or something like that). Pyle refused to allow the lieutenant on base due to lack of proper ID. Even though Pyle knew the lieutenant personally, he refused to disobey Carter’s orders. Hilarity ensued. I think Carter came around and saw what was happening. Carter apologized to the lieutenant and let him pass. Couldn’t the lieutenant just supersede Carter’s order and make Pyle let him in? (I am aware that Gomer Pyle is not a documentary.) ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/10 "2010-08-26T17:34:40Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > Wouldn’t it be easier if ALL branches did the exact same ranking system? (Yes, I know impossible to do and stuff.) but it just seems awfully confusing. Yes. and wouldn’t it also be easier if everyone in the world used the metric system? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/11 "2010-08-26T17:41:07Z")
> [@SmartAlecCat](#): > > Yes. and wouldn’t it also be easier if everyone in the world used the metric system? I’ll give up my hogsheads and firkins when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers! ---
**Author:** ![GHO57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df788c/32.png) [@GHO57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GHO57)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/12 "2010-08-26T17:46:52Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Can a person in one branch of the military “outrank” someone in another branch and order them around? > > ETA: Does Col. Sanders outrank Sgt. Slaughter? Sure they outrank you. And sure they can order you around… or rather, they are physically capable of verbalizing orders. My Alzheimer’s always used to flare up when I was given an order by anyone wearing the uniform of an enemy auxiliary (I.e. anything other than green camo). I might remember the order eventually, and I might take a look at complying with it… usually by that time the situation had resolved itself. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/13 "2010-08-26T17:47:52Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Couldn’t the lieutenant just supersede Carter’s order and make Pyle let him in? No. Not if the order was part of Pyle’s Special Orders for his Guard Duty. If you are ordered to guard something and you are told to only let certain individuals though, then nobody else can “supersede” those orders regardless of their rank. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/14 "2010-08-26T18:10:50Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > A person in one branch does outrank someone of a lower “pay grade” (those are the same across the branches). So salutes are required across branches and people are expected to be able to readily identify ranks and pay grades across branches? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/15 "2010-08-26T18:17:17Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > > [@tim-n-va](#): > > > > A person in one branch does outrank someone of a lower “pay grade” (those are the same across the branches). > > So salutes are required across branches and people are expected to be able to readily identify ranks and pay grades across branches? Officer ranks are easily discerned, as the collar devices are distinct from enlisted ranks. If it glitters, salute it. An Army colonel’s collar device is identical to a Navy captain’s device, for example (they are both O-6 grade). Knowing what to call someone is not critical, but it’s a good idea, particularly if you address an Army colonel as “captain”, which is a much lower rank in the Army. The enlisted ranks are much tougher to remember. The Air Force has things like Master Super Chief Sargeant or some such lame-osity, whereas the Marines have Sargeant Major and the Navy a Master Chief. In 23 years, I was never able to remember all of the enlisted ranks, mainly because it just didn’t matter. Officer ranks were another kettle of fish. Oh, and yes, salutes are mandatory across services. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/16 "2010-08-26T18:44:00Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Pyle refused to allow the lieutenant on base due to lack of proper ID. Even though Pyle knew the lieutenant personally, he refused to disobey Carter’s orders. Hilarity ensued. > > I think Carter came around and saw what was happening. Carter apologized to the lieutenant and let him pass. > > Couldn’t the lieutenant just supersede Carter’s order and make Pyle let him in? I haven’t seen this episode (or any), but as a non-military observer, I’m having trouble finding fault in Pvt. Pyle’s reasoning. He has orders not to let anyone in without proper identification. Even if he knows the lieutenant, how does he know it’s really him and not some enemy spy who looks absolutely the same? If it were me I’d apologize to the lieutenant, but say that no, _nobody_ is to enter without proper documentation. And even if he had authority to supersede the order, I assume he couldn’t do it without proving this authority, i.e. show his identification. In which case we’re back to square one. Is my reasoning sound, or would I be a moronic soldier? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AmunRa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AmunRa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmunRa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/17 "2010-08-26T18:54:15Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Oh, and yes, salutes are mandatory across services. And nations. Soldiers who are expected to deal with any friendly foreign military will be briefed on foreign ranks and be expected to salute foreign officers. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/18 "2010-08-26T19:16:09Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > > [@tim-n-va](#): > > > > A person in one branch does outrank someone of a lower “pay grade” (those are the same across the branches). > > So salutes are required across branches and people are expected to be able to readily identify ranks and pay grades across branches? According to my step son (Coast Guard E6) , there was a lot of confusion at his A school where he was getting his electronics training. The people there comprised a mixture of ranks and branches, and apparently the Coast Guard enlisted uniform looks a lot like an officer’s uniform in other branches. My stepson said that there were several instances of enlisted men, particularly Air Force, not being sure whether they should salute him or not. They’d be approaching him down a hallway, for example, and he said you could see their eyes searching his lapel and shoulder looking for a clue. Usually discretion won out and he received a salute. Better safe than sorry. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/19 "2010-08-26T19:20:44Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > According to my step son (Coast Guard E6) , there was a lot of confusion at his A school where he was getting his electronics training. The people there comprised a mixture of ranks and branches, and apparently the Coast Guard enlisted uniform looks a lot like an officer’s uniform in other branches. My stepson said that there were several instances of enlisted men, particularly Air Force, not being sure whether they should salute him or not. They’d be approaching him down a hallway, for example, and he said you could see their eyes searching his lapel and shoulder looking for a clue. Usually discretion won out and he received a salute. Better safe than sorry. Tales are legion of awestruck sailors walking around Manhattan during fleet week, saluting the doormen. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549/20 "2010-08-26T19:25:10Z")
At least part of the reason for differing rank structures / names is due to differing mindsets, and differing ways a particular rank is used in each service. In the Marines, for instance, a Corporal might be in charge of a a fire team, and be responsible for the leadership of those Marines in direct combat. In The Navy, a Petty Officer Third Class is a technical junior specialist in a specific career field, and could be in charge a small boat _and / or_ a working party, _and/or_ a certain piece _or_ type of machinery… Or might be in charge of no one and nothing at all, and is only a Third Class in recognition of his or her technical skills. Each service has arrived at their designations after _long_ years of trial, error, thought, and usage. They work in the context of the service, and none of teh services see any over-riding need to adopt a new system from anywhere else that might or might not work. IOW, if it ain’t broke, it don’t need fixing (though it might need tearing down for Preventative Maintenace! 😃 ) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-military-ranks-all-the-same/551549.md?page=2)