# Why aren't people from New England called New Englishmen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 18, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666 "2007-04-18T19:07:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/1 "2007-04-18T19:07:58Z")
Well? People from England are called Englishmen; anyone know why people from New England are called New Englanders, not New Englishmen? ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/2 "2007-04-18T19:28:20Z")
You’re going to get a lot of speculation here, so let me be the first. I would submit that saying “New Englander” draws attention to the fact that you’re referring to the phrase “New England” taken as a whole, rather than to, possibly, a person newly arrived in England (“a new Englishman”). See also the phrase “[Little Englander](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Englander),” which distinguishes a particular ideological group from the merely diminutive. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/3 "2007-04-18T19:30:45Z")
[QUOTE=Rodgers01] People from England are called Englishmen [/QUOTE] We are? Including the women? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/4 "2007-04-18T19:51:04Z")
Because we fought a war 231 years ago for the express purpose of not being Englishmen any longer. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/5 "2007-04-18T20:16:08Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Because we fought a war 231 years ago for the express purpose of not being Englishmen any longer. [/QUOTE] The peopel who live here (NE) are not all from England Duh… 😃 It’s not our nationality, it’s our region. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/6 "2007-04-18T20:26:26Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] It’s not our nationality, it’s our region. [/QUOTE] Tell that to a Yorkshireman. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/7 "2007-04-18T20:45:33Z")
While we’re on the subject, I’d also like to know something about New England, the stereotype character of its residents, what people there are called, etc. No, not the six U.S. states east and north of New York, but the area in northeast NSW near the Queensland border. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/8 "2007-04-18T21:42:43Z")
Because it’s confusing. People might think, instead of adults from Massachusetts, the reference is to babies in London or Liverpool. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/9 "2007-04-18T23:09:32Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] While we’re on the subject, I’d also like to know something about New England, the stereotype character of its residents, what people there are called, etc. No, not the six U.S. states east and north of New York, but the area in northeast NSW near the Queensland border. [/QUOTE] I’ve never thought about it. I think they’re called “people from New England”. Don’t know, really. The area known as “New England” is not in the extreme NE of the state, but back a little behind the “Northern Rivers” region (which is full of hippies and retirees). New England is on the western slopes and tableland of the Great Dividing Range, so it tends to be higher country (by our standards anyway) with undulating hills, which IIRC is mostly cattle country. This are is generally cooler than other places of similar latitude. The western parts of the New England region are on the plains, and there is a lot of cotton grown there. The people there are generally conservative and often Christian, and the largest town, a place called Tamworth, is the home of the annual country music festival and awards, and can be considered Australia’s Nashville. As a sweeping stereotype, the entire place is kinda “Texas Lite” in attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/10 "2007-04-19T02:46:04Z")
Thanks for all the responses. And while I have you all here, a completely unrelated question that’s slight enough that it doesn’t deserve its own thread, but I’m still curious about: in [this](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article1652592.ece) article on the Don Imus affair (which suddenly seems like ancient history, in light of the Virginia Tech shootings), the columnist writes [QUOTE=Times Article] Imus, a former Marine with a gruff demeanour, had an unsentimental show or, as they might say in America, it featured “guy talk” **(any Briton, by the way, who uses “guy” or “guys” deserves a glossectomy).** [/QUOTE] For those, like me, who didn’t know what a glossectomy is, it’s a surgery to remove your tongue. Anyways, can any Brits shed light for me why “guy” is apparently so offensive to the British ear? What’s its connotation in the UK? And while I’m at it, why did the UK in the '80s and '90s change Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles into Teenage Mutant Fighting Turtles? And will the new movie be released there as TMFT? So many questions… ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/11 "2007-04-19T02:53:17Z")
Because they are called Yankees? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/12 "2007-04-19T06:39:51Z")
[QUOTE=Rodgers01] Anyways, can any Brits shed light for me why “guy” is apparently so offensive to the British ear? What’s its connotation in the UK? [/QUOTE] There’s a segment of the population who have a disdain for any Americanisms (or percieved Americanisms) which appear in everyday British speech. It’s plain snobbery, claiming that ‘our’ way of speaking is the ‘correct’ one. I bet in the past they were complaining about all these people saying ‘hello’ and ‘OK’, too. (They’re the same people who have a big problem with regional dialects and pronunciations, too. I enjoy being awkward when I encounter this attitude - my glottal stops ain’t because I’m lazy, they’re just the way we speak here.) ---
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/13 "2007-04-19T06:52:21Z")
[QUOTE=Rodgers01] Anyways, can any Brits shed light for me why “guy” is apparently so offensive to the British ear? What’s its connotation in the UK? [/QUOTE] I’ve never heard anyone have a problem with it personally. I imagine **GorillaMan** is correct. > [@](#): > > And while I’m at it, why did the UK in the '80s and '90s change Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles into Teenage Mutant Fighting Turtles? And will the new movie be released there as TMFT? > > So many questions… I’ve never heard it called that, it was renamed to Teenage Mutant _Hero_ Turtles over here (England) though. According to IMBD: > [@](#): > > The show was re-named “Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles” for its UK transmission, because it was thought that the connotations of the word “ninja” were too violent. I think the title will remain intact this time… ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/14 "2007-04-19T07:05:38Z")
I suspect that the Times columnist was engaging in a bit of comic hyperbole, playing to the gallery of mild prejudice. The argument would go that we English have perfectly good extant words that mean the same thing: bloke, mate, lad or chap (if you’re posh). Indeed reading further, “Alan Davieson” seems to be the nom-de-plume (or a misspelling) for “Alan Davies”, who is a stand-up comic. Don’t take his column seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/15 "2007-04-19T07:47:02Z")
[QUOTE=MJinks] I’ve never heard it called that, it was renamed to Teenage Mutant _Hero_ Turtles over here (England) though. [/QUOTE] Maybe you’re right; probably just my faulty memory. Must be, because I saw the change on British TV – Sky1. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/16 "2007-04-19T07:51:22Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Tell that to a Yorkshireman. [/QUOTE] So should someone from New York be called a ‘New Yorkshireman’? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/17 "2007-04-19T09:12:05Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] So should someone from New York be called a ‘New Yorkshireman’? [/QUOTE] By that token, someone from New Hampshire would have to be called a “New Inbred”. :d&r: ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/18 "2007-04-19T09:17:59Z")
Grr. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/19 "2007-04-19T09:23:52Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] Indeed reading further, “Alan Davieson” seems to be the nom-de-plume (or a misspelling) for “Alan Davies”, who is a stand-up comic. Don’t take his column seriously. [/QUOTE] I suspect that it is a play on **Alan Davies On…** Si ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666/20 "2007-04-19T21:06:22Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] There’s a segment of the population who have a disdain for any Americanisms (or percieved Americanisms) which appear in everyday British speech. It’s plain snobbery, claiming that ‘our’ way of speaking is the ‘correct’ one. I bet in the past they were complaining about all these people saying ‘hello’ and ‘OK’, too. (They’re the same people who have a big problem with regional dialects and pronunciations, too. I enjoy being awkward when I encounter this attitude - my glottal stops ain’t because I’m lazy, they’re just the way we speak here.) [/QUOTE] Oh, so there are some British who are very much like the French. 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-people-from-new-england-called-new-englishmen/400666.md?page=2)