# Why aren't prisons racially segregated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 6, 2010, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-prisons-racially-segregated/559676 "2010-11-06T06:21:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-prisons-racially-segregated/559676/41 "2010-11-09T16:47:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Like I said, this was the kind of thing I used to have to do. I never had to write up a rationale explaining why co-ed prisons were a bad idea, but I did once have to write one up explaining why it would be a bad idea to allow a prisoner to carry a sword. In legal cases you can’t just say “Duh, that’s obvious.” Interesting - was this an RLUIPA case, with a Sikh prisoner who wanted to carry a kirpan? There’ve been a few of those. ETA: By the way, why were you the go-to guy for this? Didn’t you have lawyers for the gruntwork? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-prisons-racially-segregated/559676/42 "2010-11-09T17:23:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If I had to write up a rationale for this, I’d point out that this would increase the chances of rape or other sexual crimes as prisoners are more likely to commit these crimes against prisoners of the opposite genders than they would against prisoners of their own gender. And I’d point out that the presense of male and female prisoners in the same environment would cause an increase in sexual relationships between prisoners, which would lead to an increase in the security and other problems caused by sexual relationships, including the added factor of pregnancies that would not exist in same-sex sexual relationships. If you gave me a few days, I’d probably think of some more things. And then I’d have a whole bunch of statisitics to document all of this. And also, thinking about the wider public more than the prison environment; it would piss people off. If guys and girls were allowed to hook up, even without sex, the public perception would be that they were having too much fun and that prisons were like holiday camps. OTOH With separate genders, even gay people don’t tend to like it (they tend to get a lot of abuse / rape, I gather). And even if they did, such stories would be TMI. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-prisons-racially-segregated/559676/43 "2010-11-09T17:55:13Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Why wouldn’t it also be illegal to segregate by sex? They do that all the time. Actually, are there any coed prisons? The legal standard for discriminating by sex is lower than the legal standard for discriminating by race. Hence we can have male and female restrooms in public facilities, but not black and white restrooms. ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-prisons-racially-segregated/559676/44 "2010-11-09T22:49:39Z")
I always wondered what race I would hook up with in case I was sent to prison. (Because you know I was framed!) My last name is Jewish, my first name is not ethnically distinctive, all of my family is Mexican, and my skin is really white. I speak Spanish and English with native fluency. No one, outside of Latin America, has ever identified me as being Latino at first (When I was in China most people thought I was British). Who would take me in? Which group would be better for me to join? I guess I would be given a Latino cellmate, so that might settle things. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-prisons-racially-segregated/559676/45 "2010-11-10T02:16:26Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Interesting - was this an RLUIPA case, with a Sikh prisoner who wanted to carry a kirpan? There’ve been a few of those. Got it in one. I’ll admit even the prisoner knew he wasn’t going to win on this point. It was just one item in a long list of various religious practices he was claiming a right to. > [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > ETA: By the way, why were you the go-to guy for this? Didn’t you have lawyers for the gruntwork? 🙂 What the lawyers wanted was to get our input as “experts” in the field. They work in courtrooms and we work in prisons so the idea was that we would have a better knowledge of prison conditions. So the process basically was that a prisoner would file a lawsuit challenging a prison regulation against wearing gold jewelry for example. Then the lawyers for the department would start working on the case. As part of their preparation they would contact us and ask us to prepare a written report explaining why we have a regulation that bans gold jewelry. We’d come up with a bunch of good reasons (hopefully) and then we’d send them to the lawyers. They’d polish it up and put what we said into legal language or something. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-prisons-racially-segregated/559676/46 "2010-11-10T15:38:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Got it in one. I’ll admit even the prisoner knew he wasn’t going to win on this point. It was just one item in a long list of various religious practices he was claiming a right to.What the lawyers wanted was to get our input as “experts” in the field. They work in courtrooms and we work in prisons so the idea was that we would have a better knowledge of prison conditions. > > So the process basically was that a prisoner would file a lawsuit challenging a prison regulation against wearing gold jewelry for example. Then the lawyers for the department would start working on the case. As part of their preparation they would contact us and ask us to prepare a written report explaining why we have a regulation that bans gold jewelry. We’d come up with a bunch of good reasons (hopefully) and then we’d send them to the lawyers. They’d polish it up and put what we said into legal language or something. Cool, thanks for the explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-prisons-racially-segregated/559676/47 "2010-11-10T16:18:02Z")
Were there any cases in which you genuinely believed the prison policy was wrong, and that the prisoner’s lawsuit had merit? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-prisons-racially-segregated/559676/48 "2010-11-10T21:33:59Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Were there any cases in which you genuinely believed the prison policy was wrong, and that the prisoner’s lawsuit had merit? Sure. We’re not perfect. Sometimes we’d be doing something for no good reason. Or at least no good reason we could remember. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-prisons-racially-segregated/559676.md?page=2)