# Why aren't spyware and anti-virus bundled? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 21, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092 "2005-02-21T01:40:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/1 "2005-02-21T01:40:00Z")
I’ve been wondering this for awhile now. Spybot, Ad-Aware, and now MS–all free, all complicated, all effective to some deegree. Norton and McAfee–all cost money. Why don’t Spybot and Ad-Aware throw in viral protection too? Why doesn’t Microsoft, who could benefit the most from having everyone protected, serve up free anti-virus software along with its spyware protection? The only thing I can imagine is the virus protection software is that much harder to write and maintain; hence, someone has to charge for it. But that doesn’t seem right. Any ideas? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/2 "2005-02-21T03:02:53Z")
Microsoft just recently bought a company that makes anti-virus software, so I presume we’re going to be seeing Window Screens[sup]TM[/sup] before too long. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/3 "2005-02-21T04:56:32Z")
Many times people will ask if there’s a reason aside from marketshare why there are so few Macintosh viruses and why those that do exist are mostly very old (there are absolutely zero MacOS X viruses). One reason, seldom given adequate credit, is John Norstadt, who for about a decade maintained a free Macintosh antivirus program called Disinfectant, and every time another Mac virus cropped up he’d release another decimal-point version of Disinfectant to handle it. The Mac viruses of that era (System 3, System 4, System 6, early System 7) were moderatly prolific for a little while, but Disinfectant took the starch out of them once High School and University techroom facilitators started distributing it to their students. (This was back in the day when Macs had no hard disks so everyone had their operating system in their shirt pocket and exchanged copies – the OS was free back then too – along with fonts, disk accessories, and, umm, viruses). By the time most Macs you saw had hard disks in them, Disinfectant was standard equipment and writing Mac viruses just didn’t generate much satisfaction. (Another key element was the Info-Mac Digest. From the time I first discovered the internet in the mid-80s until it’s long fadeout in the late 90s, Info-Mac was how you got your free tech support, your Mac news, and your freeware and shareware. It helped unify the Mac community. You’d read about a new virus in one issue and six days’ later you’d download the newest version of Disinfectant using the ftp URL posted in the next issue.) So yes, I think getting some free (preferably open-source, hobbyist-maintained) Windows antivirus is your best hope. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/4 "2005-02-21T05:59:03Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Microsoft just recently bought a company that makes anti-virus software, so I presume we’re going to be seeing Window Screens[sup]TM[/sup] before too long. IIRC, McAfee and Norton’s will soon be coming out with bundled anti-spy and anti-virus software. It’s not so much as there is a need to do it (by the looks of the issues just here on the SDMB there certainly is!), but because Microsoft has entered the picture. ---
**Author:** ![EvilGhandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@EvilGhandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilGhandi)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/5 "2005-02-21T09:07:53Z")
AHunter3, If you havent read the faq, the place for witnessing is GD ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/6 "2005-02-21T09:24:51Z")
What about junior modding? Where’s the place for that? ---
**Author:** ![EvilGhandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@EvilGhandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilGhandi)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/7 "2005-02-21T09:49:03Z")
Asame as wise remarks, right here. Jeese, like no one has ever cracked an obvious joke in GQ before. ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/8 "2005-02-21T10:02:39Z")
- - - Seems like I read somewhere (maybe elsewhere here!) that the reason had a legal basis–that one company writing a program that would remove both spyware and viruses could be sued by spyware companies, for “inferring” that their _enabling_ software was a virus. * * * - And FWIW, some companies do offer integrated services: I tried the F-Secure trial suite, and it has an adware scanner that has F-Secure’s name and color scheme on it, but has a GUI that looks and functions overall astonishingly similar to AdAware. Would one company steal another company’s product, particularly when that product’s functionality depended on regular web updates? I’d bet probably not–but if that spyware-removal program is from an outside vendor, then the antivirus company has an argument that they aren’t insinuating that spyware is equivalent to viruses. ~ ---
**Author:** ![EvilGhandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@EvilGhandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilGhandi)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/9 "2005-02-21T10:09:45Z")
Grr, I hate this. Though I don’t feel I need to explain myself, I made the “witnessing” comment solely for a laugh. I didn’t see how anyone could take it any differently. I am not a member of the staff of this board, nor should any of my statements be regarded as official business of the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/10 "2005-02-21T10:43:26Z")
Sorry; it wasn’t intended as anything more than a light-hearted wisecrack, not unlike your own post; If I’d thought there was anything seriously wrong, I’d have reported the post and said nothing at all (which I didn’t). ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/11 "2005-02-21T12:34:35Z")
Hey, I just checked out [Microsoft.com](http://Microsoft.com), and they’re offering a beta version of an anti-spyware program. I’m going to have to check that out. I use Webroot’s spyware program, and it works, but I find it to be very intrusive. It’s constantly popping up to bother me about something. (“WARNING! A new bookmark has been added! Do you want to keep it?” Yeah, I know, you dumbass program. I added it myself using the pull-down menu.) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/12 "2005-02-21T13:28:27Z")
My WAG is antispyware apps came out of the blue, so to speak, and when it did it was free. When the big 2 (Spybot, Adaware) became, well ‘big’, the AV firms would have to put in so much effort to compeat against free programs that it was not worth it. Also remember that M$ once included an antivirus program as part of the OS. IIRC it was DOS 6.0, and didn’t do so well. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/13 "2005-02-21T16:10:55Z")
Actually, my wife’s Fujitsu laptop came with free MS antiviral software as part of the OS (Windows XP)–I wonder if this feature is included with any other versions of XP (ie, non-Japanese)? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/14 "2005-02-21T17:21:48Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I’ve been wondering this for awhile now. Spybot, Ad-Aware, and now MS–all free, all complicated, all effective to some deegree. Norton and McAfee–all cost money. Are you aware that not all virus protection costs money? I have [AVG](http://free.grisoft.com/freeweb.php/doc/2/) antivirus on my computer, and it seems to work a treat. Much less of a system resource hog than Norton, too. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/15 "2005-02-21T19:57:29Z")
Most of the newer versions such as Norton Antivirus 2005 has some of the features of Spybot and Adware but only in the sense that they prevent the installation of worms and warn of suspicious activity. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/16 "2005-02-22T00:02:05Z")
While most products have historically separated Anti-Spyware and Anti-Virus functions, some products DO offer both. The “E-Accelerator” package, considered by some to be Spyware itself, is one example. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/17 "2005-02-22T00:35:43Z")
Just in case anyone’s interested, [this article](http://www.windowssecrets.com/050127/#story1) makes for rather depressing reading. According to a comprehensive study of anti-spyware/anti-adware programs, it seems that most (all?) of them are far less efficient than most of us would like to believe at finding and removing the malware. The test showed that the best program for identifying and removing adware was Giant AntiSpyware, with a success rate of 63%. This software was purchased by Microsoft, and now forms the basis of [Microsoft Anti-Spyware Beta](http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx), currently available for free downbload on the MS website. Apparently, though, MS have not yet decided whether this program will still be provided free once the Beta test period expires. The article recommends running anti-spyware programs in combination with one another to achieve better coverage. The best coverage available is a combination of Giant AntiSpyware (now MS) and Webroot Spy Sweeper, offering 70% success. The latter program costs money, and if you want the best **free** option, a combination of Giant (MS) and AdAware gives a 69% success rate. The combination most often recommended on message boards is AdAware and Spybot, but the test found that using only these two programs together gives a success rate of just 54%. The article has some good advice for protecting your computer. It also has some rather depressing comments suggesting that adware isn’t likely to go away soon: > [@](#): > > The underlying reason that adware has compromised the entire Internet is that there’s big money to be made. The best analysis of this I’ve seen is by Benjamin Edelman, a Harvard Law School student. He’s documented almost $140 million in recent investments by Silicon Valley venture capitalists in just four of the largest adware makers. See [list of adware angels](http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/investors/). I tend to agree with the author of the article: > [@](#): > > First, let me make my opinion clear: The installation of adware should be illegal and harshly punished. Adware has exploded because it offers big economic incentives for its sponsors. They’ll never adequately inform PC users about their software before it’s installed. This troubling aspect of adware will never be wished away. > > Only software that a PC user specifically consents to should legally be able to install — and “end-user license agreements” that stretch off the screen should never be counted as consent. (This isn’t a knock on “ad-supported software,” such as the Opera browser. Such legitimate software is clearly integrated with its advertising and makes it easy to shut off the ads by registering.) > > \ > > It’s absolutely absurd that PC users must download, install, and update multiple programs just to keep their machines from silently accumulating crapware from morally-challenged Web sites. It’s criminal that the leading ISPs and software giants of the world didn’t move earlier to prevent these nuisances from taking over the majority of consumers’ PCs. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/18 "2005-02-22T02:48:33Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The test showed that the best program for identifying and removing adware was Giant AntiSpyware, with a success rate of 63%. This software was purchased by Microsoft, and now forms the basis of [Microsoft Anti-Spyware Beta](http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx), currently available for free downbload on the MS website. Apparently, though, MS have not yet decided whether this program will still be provided free once the Beta test period expires. Bill Gates [announced last week](http://news.com.com/Windows+anti-spyware+to+come+free+of+charge/2100-7355_3-5577202.html?tag=nl) that Microsoft would giveaway its anti-spyware software. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/19 "2005-02-22T03:41:58Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Bill Gates [announced last week](http://news.com.com/Windows+anti-spyware+to+come+free+of+charge/2100-7355_3-5577202.html?tag=nl) that Microsoft would giveaway its anti-spyware software. Cool. Thanks for the link. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092/20 "2005-02-22T04:45:21Z")
Norton/Symantec does catch some spyware. I use the new Microsoft, Spybot, SpywareBlaster, Winpatrol _and_ Hijack this. :eek: **mhendo** who is on that list? As you can understand- I try not to go to unknown sites. ☹ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-spyware-and-anti-virus-bundled/291092.md?page=2)