# Why aren't there any contemporary war movies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 8, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448 "2008-04-08T13:49:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/1 "2008-04-08T13:49:45Z")
I was talking to some friends about movies they’re coming out with now, and how they’re scraping the barrel for old ideas to recycle. One of the guys in the group, an absolute bush-lovin librul-hatin neo-con fanboy, started ranting about how Hollywood was a bunch of 'merica hatin commies cuz they’re not making any movies about our soldiers over in Iraq/Afghanistan/Kuwait. At first I laughed at him, like we usually do, but I thought about it for a bit. Why weren’t they? It’s not like there’s no material, we’ve been bombing brown people for more than a decade now. There’s plenty of examples of soldiers doing good, in spite of all the bad. So why are there tons of pro-military cold war movies, but now there’s few if any good pro-military anti-terrorist movies? Where’s the Taliban fighting Rambo, or the group of high school kids repelling an invasion of the Mexican army back by Al`Quaida (yeah, thats kind of weak, I know). Is it just that times have changed? War just isn’t popular anymore? Is Hollywood really a bunch of 'merica hatin commies? ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/2 "2008-04-08T13:57:10Z")
IANAMovie Producer, but I think the war (and president) being at around 70% disapproval rating might have something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/3 "2008-04-08T14:05:27Z")
If they can somehow work zombies into the narrative, I think it could still be green-lighted. Maybe unleashed evil Jin from when the museums were looted…I’m just free-associating here, but maybe we’ve got something! ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/4 "2008-04-08T14:08:33Z")
“Jarhead” came out a few years ago based on Gulf War 1. “Stop Loss” is in theatres now, or will be shortly. "A Rambo movie came out a few weeks ago and sank like a stone. No idea who the enemy was, though. On TV, Showtime aired two seasons of “Sleeper Cell,” about an American agent infiltrating two different terrorist cells operating in Los Angeles. “The Unit” may fill the bill, although I don’t watch it. A couple years back there was a series set in the Iraq War, I can’t recall the name however. It was not successful. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/5 "2008-04-08T14:35:17Z")
Well, there was **In The Valley Of Elah** , although that was mostly about how soldiers dealt with coming back home after the war. There was **Redacted** , which wasn’t very well received, apparently. There was **The Kingdom** , which isn’t really about the war, but does take place in a tumultuous Middle East. Coming out right now there’s **Stop-Loss** , which is about a soldier who returns from duty in Iraq who is ordered back to Iraq again. I suspect that part of the reason that no one apparently wants to see a “war movie” about Iraq is that there are still people there, still in danger right now. No soldier’s family or friends want to confront what their loved one might be going through this very minute. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/6 "2008-04-08T14:35:30Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] “Jarhead” came out a few years ago based on Gulf War 1. “Stop Loss” is in theatres now, or will be shortly. "A Rambo movie came out a few weeks ago and sank like a stone. No idea who the enemy was, though. On TV, Showtime aired two seasons of “Sleeper Cell,” about an American agent infiltrating two different terrorist cells operating in Los Angeles. “The Unit” may fill the bill, although I don’t watch it. A couple years back there was a series set in the Iraq War, I can’t recall the name however. It was not successful. [/QUOTE] So, why weren’t they successful? ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/7 "2008-04-08T14:43:20Z")
There’s a mini-series in the works on HBO called “Generation Kill”. One problem might be that it’s not a war, it’s an open-ended occupation. Just not as cinematic. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/8 "2008-04-08T14:49:43Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] So, why weren’t they successful? [/QUOTE] I think **Paintcharge** and **Max Torque** have provided the best answers so far. If you’ll think back, the Vietnam era wasn’t popular material for movies until _Platoon_, _Full Metal Jacket_ and _Apocalypse Now_ were free to point out how futile the entire effort had been. The WWII movies were pure propaganda in the years the war was being fought, and the coverage of the senseless carnage wasn’t on TV every night and whatever dissension there was to FDR’s policies wasn’t batted about on every talk show and internet blog and chat room, because those places didn’t exist then. The war themed movies that have been attempted have had to compete with the documentaries and the discussions on the web and news channels, so it’s way less likely that the propaganda aspect will be as successful in the current situation. People have just about burned out on being lied to. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/9 "2008-04-08T14:54:20Z")
[QUOTE=Max Torque] I suspect that part of the reason that no one apparently wants to see a “war movie” about Iraq is that there are still people there, still in danger right now. No soldier’s family or friends want to confront what their loved one might be going through this very minute. [/QUOTE] **Lots** of WWII movies were made while the war was still on. And it was a shorter war. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/10 "2008-04-08T14:55:24Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] So, why weren’t they successful? [/QUOTE] Some of them just sucked (_Rambo, The Kingdom, Rendition_) Others (like _Jarhead_ and _Stop-Loss_) are pretty good but I think the reason they haven’t been successful is that they aren’t conventional, rah rah war movies where square-jawed Americans beat up the bad guys. They are about conflicts which are not as morally simple as WWII. They are perceived as “political” movies rather than as entertaininment. A lot of people are convinced that Hollywood hate America and that movies like _Stop-Loss_ (which is very pro-troops) are just out to bash America and bash the troops. From what I remember, movies about Vietnam didn’t do very well _during_ the Vietnam War either. Movies like _Coming Home, The Deerhunter, Apocalypse Now_ and _Platoon_ did well after the war was over (and because they were really good movies). I think politically divisive conflicts make it difficult to produce movies about them which will have broad appeal. A lot of people will think it’s just going to be propaganda (whether it’s supportive or critical of the conflict), and a lot of other people simply don’t want to be reminded of the political battle at all. They just want to be entertained. I do think that more conventional war movies, with easy to root for heroes (even American heroes) still do pretty well. Look at _Black Hawk Down_ or _We Were Soldiers_. People like war movies to have clearly defined good guys and bad guys and an easily identifiable, unambiguous cause. That’s why WWII movies still do well. There isn’t any moral ambiguity. It’s good vs. evil. That’s what audiences want. Give them a clear rooting interest and they will come. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/11 "2008-04-08T14:56:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] From what I remember, movies about Vietnam didn’t do very well _during_ the Vietnam War either. [/QUOTE] Not even _The Green Berets?_ ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/12 "2008-04-08T15:06:56Z")
[QUOTE=Zeldar] The WWII movies were pure propaganda in the years the war was being fought, and the coverage of the senseless carnage wasn’t on TV every night and whatever dissension there was to FDR’s policies wasn’t batted about on every talk show and internet blog and chat room, because those places didn’t exist then. [/QUOTE] This sounds really good actually. Why spend money on a movie when you can watch the real thing on any media outlet? > [@](#): > > The war themed movies that have been attempted have had to compete with the documentaries and the discussions on the web and news channels, so it’s way less likely that the propaganda aspect will be as successful in the current situation. People have just about burned out on being lied to. Yeah, this is part of it too. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/13 "2008-04-08T15:13:06Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > So, why weren’t they successful? You should’ve watched the [PBS News Hour](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/newshour_index.html) yesterday. They did a segment on that very subject. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/14 "2008-04-08T15:13:25Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] **Lots** of WWII movies were made while the war was still on. And it was a shorter war. [/QUOTE] It was the last “total war” for us, with the entire population enthusiastically supporting the war and Hollywood churning out popular propaganda to support the war effort. IIRC, it wasn’t until 1944 that Hollywood ever showed a dead soldier in a film. There is nothing similar between that period and today. The war is not popular. There are no big battles to film. Soldiers breaking down the doors of houses is not glamorous and foot-stompingly gung-ho. You can see war footage on a daily basis, so the conflict it is not something that is largely invisible except for the war movies. Fictional movies uncomfortably remind people that they were for the war before they were against it and so every death causes guilt. WWII comparisons don’t work. That war has sailed. It is so over. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/15 "2008-04-08T15:36:04Z")
Also note that there was no TV during WWII\*, and we did have a short-lived TV series about the Iraq War, _Over There_, that I actually thought was pretty good. \*OK, there was some, but it was very limited. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/16 "2008-04-08T15:40:20Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Some of them just sucked (_Rambo, The Kingdom, Rendition_) Others (like _Jarhead_ and _Stop-Loss_) are pretty good but I think the reason they haven’t been successful is that they aren’t conventional, rah rah war movies where square-jawed Americans beat up the bad guys. They are about conflicts which are not as morally simple as WWII. They are perceived as “political” movies rather than as entertaininment. A lot of people are convinced that Hollywood hate America and that movies like _Stop-Loss_ (which is very pro-troops) are just out to bash America and bash the troops. From what I remember, movies about Vietnam didn’t do very well _during_ the Vietnam War either. Movies like _Coming Home, The Deerhunter, Apocalypse Now_ and _Platoon_ did well after the war was over (and because they were really good movies). I think politically divisive conflicts make it difficult to produce movies about them which will have broad appeal. A lot of people will think it’s just going to be propaganda (whether it’s supportive or critical of the conflict), and a lot of other people simply don’t want to be reminded of the political battle at all. They just want to be entertained. I do think that more conventional war movies, with easy to root for heroes (even American heroes) still do pretty well. Look at _Black Hawk Down_ or _We Were Soldiers_. People like war movies to have clearly defined good guys and bad guys and an easily identifiable, unambiguous cause. That’s why WWII movies still do well. There isn’t any moral ambiguity. It’s good vs. evil. That’s what audiences want. Give them a clear rooting interest and they will come. [/QUOTE] Oddly, _The Deerhunter, Apocalypse Now_ and _Platoon_ do not fit within the stated criteria for popular war movies: > [@](#): > > People like war movies to have clearly defined good guys and bad guys and an easily identifiable, unambiguous cause. Nor, for that matter, to other popular war movies such as _Catch-22_ and _MASH_. … though as stated, these were only popular after the relevant war was over. ---
**Author:** ![AlmondJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@AlmondJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlmondJoy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/17 "2008-04-08T15:42:49Z")
i feel like i regularly see documentaries, tv series, films ect about contemporary conflicts. it might be small in comparison to WWII movies/ cold war ect but I think that’s only because there has been so much more time - thus more films. Stop-Loss just came out, Jar Head (as mentioned before). There have been several specials on MTV and womens channels about young troops and their families. Plus I think it’s a layered conflict that doesn’t immidiately translate into a mass marketable 90 minute film and not exactly full of black and white heros and villians (or at least we are not as far enough removed to make those generalizations ). I am sure more contemporary war films/ tv shows will be coming out soon ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/18 "2008-04-08T15:52:35Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] They are about conflicts which are not as morally simple as WWII. [/QUOTE] Iraq especially may be a bit difficult for Hollywood to frame in the traditional cinematic moral shorthand. “Okay, the movie’s heroes are fighting against overwhelmingly powerful invaders… er, wait a second…” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/19 "2008-04-08T15:52:52Z")
BTW, I watched Frontline’s _Bad Voodoo’s War_ last night. I highly recommend it, if you want to get a feel for what it’s like to be fighting in Iraq right now. It’s a little slow at first, but it’s only an hour and well worth the investment in time. I’m sure it’ll be repeated on PBS quite frequently in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448/20 "2008-04-08T16:03:03Z")
IMDB has a search for movies by key word. This is their list for movies with the keyword [Arab;](http://www.imdb.com/keyword/arab/) and this for [Middle East.](http://www.imdb.com/keyword/middle-east/) Those are quite long lists, and there are a lot of other related keywords as well. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-contemporary-war-movies/444448.md?page=2)