# Why aren't there any j's on the periodic table of elements? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 19, 2000, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928 "2000-05-19T01:12:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jose\_Aburrido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@Jose\_Aburrido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jose_Aburrido)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/1 "2000-05-19T01:12:47Z")
I’m sure this has come up before, as it is one of the great mysteries of the world, but, why aren’t there any j’s on teh periodic table of elements? I mean J is a freqeuntly used letter, right? I have never seen a J anywhere near the PTOE. The elements are mostly written in Latin, maybe there are no J’s in latin or someting like that. ---
**Author:** ![NewJive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@NewJive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NewJive)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/2 "2000-05-19T01:16:08Z")
In fact, there aren’t any J’s in Latin…well, classical Latin at least. Church Latin is a little different. But for example, Julius Caesar would have spelled his name Iulius, with an I…making about the same sound. bob 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/3 "2000-05-19T08:25:50Z")
I agree with **NewJive** about there being no J in Latin, but there are plenty of elements which do not come from Latin. The Noble gases and a few other elements come from Greek, which also has no J. Several are named after countries, although Japanium did not make the cut. Three are named after planets, so I guess Jupiterium just missed out. A whole lot of the most recent ones are named after Physicists. And even though we have one named after a US state, I wouldn’t hold my breath for NewJersium. As for the frequency of the letter J, I have notieced that when it **does** put in an appearance, it’s the first letter of the word, a vast majority (probably should have used a different term there) of the time. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/4 "2000-05-19T08:51:26Z")
There’s no **W** in Latin either, but theere it is on the periodic table, standing for Tungsten. (Wolfram is another name for it). **Q** doesn’t occur, except in the newfangled Unq (for unnilquadium). I’m not sure if Unq is still the official symbol for element 104. It’s an international disgrace to name elements that way. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/5 "2000-05-19T10:16:40Z")
I seem to remember that Elements 104 through 109 were officially named a few years ago. The reason it took so long is that multiple parties claimed to have discovered some of them first, and whoever discovers it should get to name it; I still think some of the names are in dispute, based on what I found. At any rate, nobody uses Unnilquadium, which is based on the Latin words for 1, 0, and 4, anymore. According to [http://www.chemicalelements.com](http://www.chemicalelements.com), the names of Elements 104 through 109 are, in order: Rutherfordium (Rf) Dubnium (Db) Seaborgium (Sg) Bohrium (Bh) Hassium (Hs) Meitnerium (Mt) Of these, Rf, Sg, Bh, and Mt are named after Physicists. Db is named for a place-name in Russia, and Hs is named for “the Latin word _Hassias_, a German state” You would also be pleased to find out, **José** , that they give, as an alternate name for Db, Joliotium (Jl). ---
**Author:** ![Geenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Geenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geenius)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/6 "2000-05-19T14:54:28Z")
Wasn’t No. 105 originally Hahnium? Did they change it to appease the Russians (who had their own names for Nos. 104 and 105)? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/7 "2000-05-19T15:02:42Z")
I don’t think it’s any devious plot, just serendipity compounded by the fact that when the early elements were named the letter J wasn’t widely in use (as other posters have mentioned, I was a common replacement for J.) ---
**Author:** ![Geenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Geenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geenius)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/8 "2000-05-19T15:09:52Z")
Oh, BTW, to address one of Jose’s initial assertions: J is actually _not_ a frequently used letter. In English, it’s the third _least_-often used letter. The Frequency Alphabet: ETAONRISHDLFCMUGYPWBVKXJQZ. ---
**Author:** ![Jose\_Aburrido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@Jose\_Aburrido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jose_Aburrido)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2000, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/9 "2000-05-19T22:55:49Z")
Ok. Thanks, those responces pretty much explain why there aren’t any J’s on the table of elements. Our minds can now be at ease. I still think J is a popular first initial. The scientists’ that discover the elements probly only use there last names. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2000, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/10 "2000-05-20T00:16:38Z")
“J” is currently extremely popular as the first letter of first names. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2000, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/11 "2000-05-20T00:43:56Z")
A book I have which was put out by _Scientific American_ in 1995 lists “proposed names” for elements 104-109. They’re all the same as the ones I posted earlier, except for 105, which is listed as Hahnium (Ha), so you were right about that, **Geenius**. Also, it has element 107 as Neilsbohrium (Ns), which, besides sounding cool, would be the first element on the Periodic Table to use a person’s first name. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2000, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/12 "2000-05-20T17:22:34Z")
In the case of Dubnium/Hahnium, the most likely explanation for the switch is that it was decided that the Russians created element 105 first. Thus, they get to name it. Same thing for Hassium/Neilsbohrium, except that the Germans beat out whover proposed Ns. Other element name trivia: There’s no element with the symbol “M” because M is used to represent metal atoms in certain atomic diagrams. Likewize, H represents halogen atoms (fluorine, chlorine, bromine, iodine, astatine). Also, X is a common wildcard symbol for atoms and functional groups, so even if an element is named Xenium, it would not likely get the symbol (X). The _real_ question is: What will they call element 115? Lazarium (Lz)? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2000, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/13 "2000-05-20T19:22:26Z")
[hijack] I replaced a J once, too, but I got tired of it, found the SDMB, and I’ve never done it since. [/hijack] I’ve always found it interesting to look at older tables. Could someone find me an image of a table with less than 92 elements on it? ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/14 "2000-05-21T00:20:39Z")
**Diceman** said, “Likewize, H represents halogen atoms…” But, that’s different, right, because there is an element with H as its symbol. Hydrogen. By the way, that wildcard thing is cool, but unfortunate. I always wanted the rest of the alphabet to be used up. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/15 "2000-05-21T01:11:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > [hijack] > I replaced a J once, too, but I got tired of it, found the SDMB, and I’ve never done it since. > [/hijack] > I’ve always found it interesting to look at older tables. Could someone find me an image of a table with less than 92 elements on it? > \*\* OOPS! :o I goofed on the H, but M _is_ commonly used to represent metals in general. Now that I think about, halogens are probably the most common use for the wildcard X, as in “NaX,” which could refer to any sodium salt, including soium chloride (table salt). ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/16 "2000-05-21T01:18:07Z")
alright, what’s going on here? I can’t edit my own post, and I’m sure my password is right :mad: Moderator! ---
**Author:** ![jayron\_32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/41988e/32.png) [@jayron\_32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayron_32)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2000, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/17 "2000-05-21T02:01:24Z")
> [@](#): > > H > represents halogen atoms (fluorine, chlorine, bromine, iodine, astatine). Also, > X is a common wildcard symbol for atoms and functional groups, so even if an > element is named Xenium, it would not likely get the symbol (X). Actually, as someone already mentioned, H=hydrogen. Also, X is almost always the wildcard for “halogen”. M is the wildcard metal (as already mentioned) and “R” is the wildcard hydrocarbon group. You will never see “M” “R” or “X” as chemical symbols otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Jose\_Aburrido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@Jose\_Aburrido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jose_Aburrido)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/18 "2000-05-22T01:09:05Z")
yup. ---
**Author:** ![Jose\_Aburrido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@Jose\_Aburrido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jose_Aburrido)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2000, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/19 "2000-05-22T01:10:24Z")
Thats all good and well, I just wanted to know about the J’s though. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2000, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928/20 "2000-05-24T06:14:58Z")
johnjacobjingleheimerschmitzium. Peace. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-any-js-on-the-periodic-table-of-elements/19928.md?page=2)