# Why aren't there flying wing passenger/freight airplanes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 12, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-flying-wing-passenger-freight-airplanes/556920 "2010-10-12T20:46:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-flying-wing-passenger-freight-airplanes/556920/41 "2017-10-20T13:37:46Z")
> [@JHBoom](#): > > … > > If pax & cargo are in the wings, where is the fuel going to be stored?.. “Pax”: neat. Common or did you just throw it in? Civilian pilots slang only, or up and down the industry? ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-flying-wing-passenger-freight-airplanes/556920/42 "2017-10-20T13:52:06Z")
It’s used in the military quite extensively so I’d say industry wide as well. Lifting bodies would make more sense than a pure flying wing, and [Boeing](http://people.bath.ac.uk/cc543/New_Aircraft_Structures/lifting_body_aircraft.html)among others have put a few to paper. Here’s a more indepth [look](http://www.twitt.org/bldwing.htmhttp://)but keep in mind this one is 20 years old. The idea has been floated for some time. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-flying-wing-passenger-freight-airplanes/556920/43 "2017-10-20T14:23:33Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > “Pax”: neat. Common or did you just throw it in? Civilian pilots slang only, or up and down the industry? Not just civilian, and not just aviation. My exposure (and maybe \*\*JHBoom’\*\*s as well, since he’s Air Force) was in military transport operations, since they carry people as well as cargo. The part of the Base Flight Ops building where you wait for your military passenger flight was universally called the PAX terminal. [Apropos SDMB thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=650736). ---
**Author:** ![JHBoom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/13edae/32.png) [@JHBoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JHBoom)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-flying-wing-passenger-freight-airplanes/556920/44 "2017-10-20T14:45:49Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > “Pax”: neat. Common or did you just throw it in? Civilian pilots slang only, or up and down the industry? Common in both .civ and .mil aviation. Also common, but not as nice, is referring to passengers as “self-loading cargo”. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-flying-wing-passenger-freight-airplanes/556920/45 "2017-10-20T16:45:48Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Not just civilian, and not just aviation. My exposure (and maybe \*\*JHBoom’\*\*s as well, since he’s Air Force) was in military transport operations, since they carry people as well as cargo. The part of the Base Flight Ops building where you wait for your military passenger flight was universally called the PAX terminal. > > [Apropos SDMB thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=650736). Thanks to all on this little side bend, and the thread cite is on the money. Just to nail it, it’s also said out loud sounded as acronym? Too bad about “comix.” ETA: up and down civilian industry: steward[eses] use? Ticket/boarding people? (When they’re not addressing their “guests” or “important customers.”) ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-flying-wing-passenger-freight-airplanes/556920/46 "2017-10-20T17:35:11Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Passenger experience. This is sort of hard to explain, but it has to do with the movement the passengers feel when the plane turns. When a plane banks to enter a turn, one wingtip goes up, the other goes down. The passengers don’t feel it much because they’re sitting so close to the centerline of the plane. (The people in the window seats only go up or down a couple feet.) A flying wing is designed to spread the load out along the whole length. For the people sitting at the extremes, it’s gonna feel like the floor just fell out from under them. This is one of the things I liked about shipboard life in the Navy. Being on an aircraft carrier with a beam of over forty yards at the waterline, my bunk was dozens of feet from the centerline of the ship–even a modest roll of the ship resulted in going up and down several yards. It felt nice to sleep like that. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-flying-wing-passenger-freight-airplanes/556920/47 "2017-10-20T18:13:52Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Thanks to all on this little side bend, and the thread cite is on the money. > > Just to nail it, it’s also said out loud sounded as acronym? This is usually a useless thing to say in subjects of orthography and speech, but… it is spoken just like it’s spelled. Homophonous with “packs”, rhymes with “max”. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-flying-wing-passenger-freight-airplanes/556920/48 "2017-10-20T19:19:01Z")
Is there a standard usage of “pax” with regard to whether that includes the pilot? I’ve gotten into misunderstandings with people over whether “1 pax” means the aircraft is a one-place craft that carries a pilot only, or a two-place craft that carries a pilot and one passenger. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-flying-wing-passenger-freight-airplanes/556920/49 "2017-10-20T22:31:55Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > When banking for a turn, the upper wingtip encounters higher drag, in part because it has to move faster than the lower wingtip. [nitpick] What you describe here is a minor part of adverse yaw. The lion’s share come from increase induced drag due to a higher angle of attack on the (soon to be) upper wing. It’s seen almost immediately as the bank is initiated - well before the upper wingtip is moving faster. Indeed, if rudder is not properly applied the nose may yaw away from the intended turn direction, meaning that the upgoing wingtp is moving slower. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![JHBoom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/13edae/32.png) [@JHBoom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JHBoom)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-flying-wing-passenger-freight-airplanes/556920/50 "2017-10-20T22:37:30Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Is there a standard usage of “pax” with regard to whether that includes the pilot? I’ve gotten into misunderstandings with people over whether “1 pax” means the aircraft is a one-place craft that carries a pilot only, or a two-place craft that carries a pilot and one passenger. As I normally use the term, pax and crew are separate things - pilots and other flight crewmembers actively filling a crew position are not passengers, and are not counted as such. This was also my experience in both the Marines and the Air Force. For example: a KC-10 with the Increased Accommodation Unit (4 pallets of airliner seats) installed has 75 passenger seats. There are 5 crew seats that can be occupied during all phases of flight (all on the flight deck), therefore the maximum non-contingency\* capacity of the KC-10 is 80. When making the pre-arrival report to the C2 activities at Base X, my radio call would include “_Y_ crew, _Z_ pax”, since flight crew and pax are handled differently and get separate transportation off the flightline. However, my emergency egress brief during the Before Takeoff checklist in the KC-10 would simply state the number of “souls on board”, because in an emergency, ATC and the crash crew don’t care if the bodies are crewmembers or passengers - they just need to know how many bodies to count to determine if they need to walk into the flaming wreckage to rescue someone, or if everyone is accounted for and they don’t have to make that walk. Personally, I wouldn’t call a one-place aircraft a “1 pax” aircraft, I’d call it a “single-seat” aircraft - in my mind, the single seat is obviously for a pilot and not a passenger. - Contingency evacuation procedures allow for a lot more than that - they can load 22 pallets in the cargo compartment, string cargo straps across them as makeshift seat belts, and evacuate hundreds of people at once. This has never been done in the KC-10 (thankfully). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-flying-wing-passenger-freight-airplanes/556920.md?page=2)