# Why Aren't There Franchise Law Firms? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 20, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874 "2004-11-20T22:02:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/23 "2016-04-30T12:52:12Z")
Did somebody say McLawsuit? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/24 "2016-04-30T13:54:36Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > …Franchises also seem to work well for businesses in which consistency of product is at a premium. For just the reasons the OP notes, this makes Mickey D’s attractive to me on the ninth day of my Bulgaria trip, when I’ve wearied of the crapshoot of finding a local restaurant that’s charming and delicious rather than filthy and awful-tasting. I know exactly what those fries will taste like, and that my meal will come at a reasonable price vis a vis its quality… I’ve never noticed it with respect to McDonald’s, but KFC does _not_ taste the same everywhere in the world. It’s not better, or worse, just slightly different. Maybe they have a stronger local sourcing policy. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/25 "2016-04-30T13:57:56Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I’ve seen a billboard for Johnny Cochran’s law firm in either Memphis or St Louis. I was going to mention Cochran. It’s a straight-up franchise operation. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/26 "2016-04-30T17:52:13Z")
Well, Johnny Cochran’s franchise may actually work. Ask a typical American, “Who’s your doctor,” and he’ll immediately reply, “Dr. Jones.” Ask “Who’s your lawyer,” and most will say, “Um…” I have never been arrested and have never needed a lawyer on the spur of the moment. Most middle class Americans are in the same boat. So, if an average guy DID happen to get arrested, and needed a lawyer, who’s he going to call? Whichever lawyer’s name he REMEMBERS, probably. He sure remembers Johnny Cochran, and that MAY be enough to get him to call the local Cochran franchise. I laugh at the local TV and radio ads for lawyers who specialize in DWI cases, but hey, if I ever got arrested for drunk driving (purely hypothetical; I don’t drink and never have), who would I call? Probably one of those guys whose ads I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/27 "2016-04-30T18:36:18Z")
There was a fictional one on the old LA-Law tv show, **Torts-R-US**. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2016, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/28 "2016-05-01T04:28:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I was going to mention Cochran. It’s a straight-up franchise operation. I’m curious - how does it work? ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2016, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/29 "2016-05-01T08:55:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I was going to mention Cochran. It’s a straight-up franchise operation. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I’m curious - how does it work? Since I’ve been watching that O.J. Simpson trial miniseries (I’m almost done), I’m leaning towards them specializing in Criminal Defense with the race card. St Louis would have been convenient for them as Ferguson is a suburb. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/31 "2016-05-09T20:57:35Z")
> [@ShawnDurrance](#): > > I was looking for an opportunity to invest in a law firm myself Just to be clear, I believe most American bar associations prohibit non-lawyers from being shareholders in a law firm. It’s why there are no large consolidated “professional services” companies in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/32 "2016-05-09T21:13:52Z")
Except for hospitals, medical clinics, McKinsey Consulting… but yeah. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/33 "2016-05-09T21:27:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I was going to mention Cochran. It’s a straight-up franchise operation. I don’t think that firm is a franchise, as the term is usually defined. It’s simply a firm with[offices in several (14) states](http://www.cochranfirm.com/office-locations/). That’s unusual for a plaintiffs’ firm, but does not indicate any franchise arrangement. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/34 "2016-05-09T21:42:58Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t think that firm is a franchise, as the term is usually defined. It’s simply a firm with[offices in several (14) states](http://www.cochranfirm.com/office-locations/). That’s unusual for a plaintiffs’ firm, but does not indicate any franchise arrangement. The web site might not disclose it very clearly, but unless things have changed since 2014, I can tell you that it’s a network of unrelated law firms.that license the use of the Cochran trademarks. _Cochran Firm P.C. v. Cochran Firm L.A. LLP_, 572 Fed. App’x 491 (9th Cir. 2014): > [@](#): > > … Appellee may be misusing the trademark to deceive the public into believing it is a single, national firm, when in fact it is a network of separate partnerships. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/35 "2016-05-09T21:49:57Z")
Looking at the list of Franchise Agreements available through the state of Wisconsin’s [Department of Financial Institution’s](https://www.wdfi.org/apps/FranchiseEFiling/activeFilings.aspx) website, I see not a single law firm among the over 3,000 companies listed, not even the ones mentioned in this thread as possible candidates. As others have mentioned, standardization is an issue with 50 states and 50 sets of laws. The closest thing to a law franchise I can think that is operating today might be Legal Shield. The other issue, of course, is there is little to franchise. When a person buys a franchise, they likely do it for one of two reasons: the information or the brand. You can’t franchise the law information - the purchasers have to earn their law degrees elsewhere, so there is little of value you can provide them on that service. The other is the brand - while there are famous law firms, I don’t know of any legal brands that are nationwide. Hell, a third problem is that the franchisor is going to want to get paid - royalties, required purchase agreements, etc. A lot of the revenue opportunities that exist in many franchises wouldn’t exist under a legal franchise and hell, once you get down to it, all your franchisees will be lawyers who will eventually be suing you to get out of the franchise agreement, so why bother? Thinking about it, a fourth reason: The VAST majority of franchise opportunities are a word that rhymes with “hams” and sounds like “scams”… lawyers are trained to read contracts, unlike the vast number of people who buy a franchise because they want to play barista for a few hundred thousand dollars or whatever. Any lawyer stupid enough to sign a typical franchise agreement is not a lawyer I want representing my interests! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/36 "2016-05-09T21:57:22Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The other issue, of course, is there is little to franchise. When a person buys a franchise, they likely do it for one of two reasons: the information or the brand. You can’t franchise the law information - the purchasers have to earn their law degrees elsewhere, so there is little of value you can provide them on that service. The other is the brand - while there are famous law firms, I don’t know of any legal brands that are nationwide. The case I cited above is a trademark dispute between two firms using the Cochran name and one of the important facts is that the defendant had at one time a valid trademark licensing agreement under which he paid licensing fees to the trademark holder. I don’t know whether that fits the definition of “franchise” that must be registered under Wisconsin law, but it seems to fit the general idea of a franchise arrangement. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/37 "2016-05-09T22:09:33Z")
Looking through both Wisconsin’s and California’s websites for franchise agreements, I can’t find a single law firm that franchises. There are some paralegal franchisors, Legal Zoom, and “legal support services” firms such as Axzas… but no actual law firms that I’ve found. However, the California website _suuuuuuuucks_, so it’s possible one slipped through and I didn’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/38 "2016-05-09T22:18:21Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The case I cited above is a trademark dispute between two firms using the Cochran name and one of the important facts is that the defendant had at one time a valid trademark licensing agreement under which he paid licensing fees to the trademark holder. > > I don’t know whether that fits the definition of “franchise” that must be registered under Wisconsin law, but it seems to fit the general idea of a franchise arrangement. Sorry, but not at all. A Franchise Disclosure Document is a 200-1,400 page document specifying how you’re going to pay to how they are going to get paid… and everything in between, including the Franchise Agreement, processes, training requirements, etc, which includes verbiage about trademark usage. I’m not going to research the lawsuit, but the bit that you quoted appears to be saying that the use of the trademark conveys the appearance of a unified law firm, but in fact, the Cochran Law Firm is not such a thing, not even on the Franchise level. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/39 "2016-05-11T13:59:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Just to be clear, I believe most American bar associations prohibit non-lawyers from being shareholders in a law firm. It’s why there are no large consolidated “professional services” companies in the United States. Same in Canada. No non-lawyers can have a financial interest in a law firm. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/40 "2016-05-11T14:05:31Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The other is the brand - while there are famous law firms, I don’t know of any legal brands that are nationwide. What about [Dentons](http://www.dentons.com/en/global-presence/united-states.aspx) and [Norton Rose](http://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/us/about-us/global-coverage/)? They’re global firms which have a presence in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/41 "2016-05-11T14:08:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Except for hospitals, medical clinics, McKinsey Consulting… but yeah. 😉 It’s the “consolidated” part that **Acensray** was referring to, meaning cross-professional. Those groups will have lawyers working for them, but as in-house. They won’t be providing legal services to the general public. There can’t be a consolidated firm of accountants and lawyers, for instance, unlike in Europe where such arrangements are permitted. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/42 "2016-05-11T15:17:53Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Probably for the same reason accounting, consulting, investment banking and other professional services firms don’t franchise. It doesn’t fit with their business model. Professional services firms are typically partnerships where the main role of the partners is selling business and collecting revenue from billing out junior staff. To “franchise”, the franchise owner would essentially be buying in as a partner capable of generating enough business to keep x number of associates busy. This is pretty much it, and how I suspect that we sometimes end up with the “Random City” office of “Dewey, Cheatham and Howe, LLC” out of the clear blue. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874/43 "2016-05-11T15:19:58Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > What about [Dentons](http://www.dentons.com/en/global-presence/united-states.aspx) and [Norton Rose](http://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/us/about-us/global-coverage/)? They’re global firms which have a presence in the US. Norton Rose Fulbright essentially bought a huge US firm- Fulbright and Jaworski. I suspect that when they did so, they basically gave all the partners a share in the larger company, and I also suspect that the ownership is a lawyer’s dream of complicated ownership and operation only as much as is legally necessary in certain countries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-there-franchise-law-firms/275874.md?page=3)