# Why arent we working to reduce Death? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818 "2004-12-20T17:00:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/21 "2004-12-20T20:50:39Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > But in principle there’s no reason why if you can live a year you couldn’t live 1000 years. The question is: how many people would even want to live for a thousand years? We can say all we want to that the only thing that’s holding us back from fully experiencing life is an “early” death, but really, how many of us even given an infinite amount of time would really complete all of our life’s dreams? There’s nothing you can do in a thousand years that you couldn’t theoretically do in 120 years; living longer just means that we’d spend even more years toiling away at jobs we hate and doing things we don’t want to do, because even if you’re immortal, you still have to eat and live somewhere (not to mention, pay for all those expensive anti-death medications). The ratio of pleasurable times to unpleasurable ones would be roughly the same no matter how long you live. Instead of putting everything off and mourning about their deaths before they even happen, people should be making the most of what they have right now. Personally, I think it’s selfish to want to live for a millennium. I don’t believe people were meant to live that long, and it’s unnatural to expand the lifespan (though trying to push the limits of the lifespan is another thing altogether, I don’t see a problem with making 100 the average death age). Colonizing space just so we have a place to rest our stodgy thousand-year bones just seems like such a waste to me. If you truly want to be immortal, find a way to live on after your death through memories, artifacts, and stories. People aren’t really dead if you can find a way to remember them. \<–this line shamelessly stolen from Star Trek 2: Wrath of Khan ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/22 "2004-12-20T21:17:25Z")
It’s every parent’s dream to outlive their child. -Homer Simpson ---
**Author:** ![Cornelius\_Tuggerson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Cornelius\_Tuggerson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cornelius_Tuggerson)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/23 "2004-12-20T21:21:08Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > And what are we going to do with the towering hordes of immortals once we have this death thing licked? Would we ban new life, since there’d be no room for it? Funny you should mention that. As it turns out the major part of modern rocket science was spawned by Mr [Tsiolkovsky](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky) and some of his cronies pondering that very question and space travel was the only answer they managed to come up with. The real thing they wanted to do was not only to keep everyone alive forever but also resurrect “the dead fathers” so it was a somewhat harder problem then the one currently being discussed 😉 . ---
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/24 "2004-12-20T21:26:14Z")
> [@The Master Killer](#): > > Why arent we working to reduce Death? Why would I never want to meet my Lord? ---
**Author:** ![EmeraldGrue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dc4da7/32.png) [@EmeraldGrue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmeraldGrue)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/25 "2004-12-20T21:54:06Z")
…BECAUSE I’M TOO YOUNG TO RETIRE. :rattles hourglasses: ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/26 "2004-12-20T23:03:13Z")
Interestingly, [Popular Science](http://www.popsci.com/popsci/medicine/article/0,20967,929447,00.html) has an article about that just this month. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/27 "2004-12-20T23:12:22Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Most humans, if nothing were to go wrong, would live to the age of about 110-120. That number has not really changed significantly. > > What has changed is that we’re finding ways to eliminate the things that “go wrong” and prevent someone from reaching that mark. So, for example, the potential lifespan may be 110-120 and some people may have died earlier than that due to smallpox. What we’ve done is removed smallpox from the list of things that prevent you from reaching that high potential, but we haven’t actually changed the potential maximum age at all. Gotcha. The potential lifespan is the same, but the actual lifespan has changed. ---
**Author:** ![JasonFin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4af34b/32.png) [@JasonFin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JasonFin)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/28 "2004-12-20T23:14:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Once upon a time, the planet was tyrannized by a giant dragon. The dragon stood taller than the largest cathedral, and it was covered with thick black scales. Its red eyes glowed with hate, and from its terrible jaws flowed an incessant stream of evil-smelling yellowish-green slime. It demanded from humankind a blood-curdling tribute: to satisfy its enormous appetite, ten thousand men and women had to be delivered every evening at the onset of dark to the foot of the mountain where the dragon-tyrant lived. Sometimes the dragon would devour these unfortunate souls upon arrival; sometimes again it would lock them up in the mountain where they would wither away for months or years before eventually being consumed. This is the opening paragraph of [the Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant.](http://www.nickbostrom.com/fable/dragon.html) This story addresses this issue only tangentially, but I think it provides a perspective that deserves more consideration than it typically receives. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/29 "2004-12-21T00:19:09Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > The question is: how many people would even want to live for a thousand years? Love to, thank you! I would love nothing more than to live 1000 years. I don’t care if I have to work the whole thousand. Life tends to seem dull sometimes, but that is basically what we do to ourselves. We don’t go after our dreams, doing jobs we will love because it doesn’t seem worth the effort oftentimes. We box ourselves into this mindset that after you reach a certain age, you are supposed to die, supposed to get out of shape, and do nothing to prevent it. If you lived 1000 years it sure would make you consider differently. You would take care of yourself, go to school and/ or do the things you ENJOY. There is also this whole thing called progress. I know, it is hard to see right? All the advances around you, space technology, biochemistry, cybernetics, nanotechnology. Lots of fascinating stuff that will change the world forever. Lets say that again. It will CHANGE it. Never before has the world seen what we see today. Never before can man look towards the future with the amount of uncertainty as we look towards it now. Things change at breakneck speed. This could mean things you cannot do today will be possible in 10 years. Your brain not work the greatest, so you cannot enjoy mathmatics (a problem I certainly have), give it 20 years. They may have computer implants, genetic therapy or drugs that enhance intelligence easily enough you can learn whatever you want, lack of childhood development be damned. The future is where I will be when I am old, and I want to be around to see it and experience it. Even 1000 years doesn’t seem long enough. (yes, there will be bad things too, but I welcome the bad with the good) > [@](#): > > We can say all we want to that the only thing that’s holding us back from fully experiencing life is an “early” death, but really, how many of us even given an infinite amount of time would really complete all of our life’s dreams? I would. I want to be good at math, to understand the world around me and to be able to do anything. I want to travel to another planet, discover a new species, invent a new drug, and most of all, I want to write a thousand books. I can’t do any of these things now, with the exception of writing a book (not a 1000 by any means), but I MIGHT be able to do them in the future, and the possiblity itself is worth holding on to life as long as possible. > [@](#): > > There’s nothing you can do in a thousand years that you couldn’t theoretically do in 120 years; living longer just means that we’d spend even more years toiling away at jobs we hate and doing things we don’t want to do, because even if you’re immortal, you still have to eat and live somewhere (not to mention, pay for all those expensive anti-death medications). The ratio of pleasurable times to unpleasurable ones would be roughly the same no matter how long you live. Instead of putting everything off and mourning about their deaths before they even happen, people should be making the most of what they have right now. I agree that people should be making the most of what they have right now. The two aren’t mutually exclusive though, one can have both, 1000 years of life and efficency in the now. I think more people need to have an optimistic outlook in life, and extending the length of life will give people more reason to take care of themselves, plan ahead and learn to enjoy things more. This whole cycilic view is depressing. There doesn’t have to be birth, growth, decline and death. I can be all growth and enjoyment, and excitement and love and happiness. It can be achieving all the things you want, see all the things you have desired, and doing more with your life. > [@](#): > > Personally, I think it’s selfish to want to live for a millennium. I don’t believe people were meant to live that long, and it’s unnatural to expand the lifespan (though trying to push the limits of the lifespan is another thing altogether, I don’t see a problem with making 100 the average death age). Colonizing space just so we have a place to rest our stodgy thousand-year bones just seems like such a waste to me. > > If you truly want to be immortal, find a way to live on after your death through memories, artifacts, and stories. People aren’t really dead if you can find a way to remember them. \<–this line shamelessly stolen from Star Trek 2: Wrath of Khan Selfish? In what way is life NOT selfish? Why don’t you give me all your money and food right now? Are you selfish? Of course it is selfish, it is survival and life. I think living for 70-100 years is a waste, and that colonizing space is the ultimate answer to allowing those that want to live to live. I see it as more evil to want to halt life-extending technology just so that you can have your peace of mind and to hell with those that want to live. I don’t want people to remember me, I want to live. I don’t want some people that never knew me transferring pieces of themselves into my work. I want to grow and live and change across the millenia. I think there are more people that share my views than you are aware of, and to deny me and them their dreams is the ultimate evil. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/30 "2004-12-21T00:47:30Z")
I’m devoting a considerable amount of effort to figuring out a way to live forever. So far, so good. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/31 "2004-12-21T00:48:40Z")
> [@Kel Varnsen - Latex Division](#): > > Why would I never want to meet my Lord? The Christians of Nero’s time went to their deaths, by winld animals, or being human torches, singing the praises of their Lord. It is appointed to man (mankind) to die once and after that…Hebrews 9:27 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/32 "2004-12-21T02:40:57Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > There’s nothing you can do in a thousand years that you couldn’t theoretically do in 120 years… I’d like to visit another solar system. Can’t really do that in 120 years, Alpha Centauri excepted. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/33 "2004-12-21T03:49:52Z")
> [@JasonFin](#): > > This is the opening paragraph of [the Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant.](http://www.nickbostrom.com/fable/dragon.html) This story addresses this issue only tangentially, but I think it provides a perspective that deserves more consideration than it typically receives. That is the greatest thing I’ve read in a year! Thank you so much! Someday the phrase “death is a part of life” will sound as imbecilic as “plagues are God’s punishment for our sins”. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/34 "2004-12-21T11:53:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I have 3 little girls, ages 6, 4 and 1 year old. Since the birth of my oldest, I have been stuck with fear over my own mortality. I go to bed at night thinking about what is an inevitable, undeniable part (or end) of life. I cant stop, I’m deathly (no pun intended) afraid of dying. The thought of non-existance is horrifying… The thought that one day my beautiful girls will be fatherless is killing (again, no pun intended) me… I’m with you **Master Killer** , I have two daughters aged 12 and 4 and the same thoughts go through my mind. I have no belief in an afterlife and at least once a day think about what it might be like at the actual moment of death, what do we experience? > [@](#): > > I would love nothing more than to live 1000 years. I don’t care if I have to work the whole thousand. Life tends to seem dull sometimes, but that is basically what we do to ourselves. We don’t go after our dreams, doing jobs we will love because it doesn’t seem worth the effort oftentimes. We box ourselves into this mindset that after you reach a certain age, you are supposed to die, supposed to get out of shape, and do nothing to prevent it. If you lived 1000 years it sure would make you consider differently. You would take care of yourself, go to school and/ or do the things you ENJOY. Yep, **Epimetheus** , I’m with you too. I think that assuming we survive as a species then eventually we will achieve some form of immortality, whether it is by genetics, nanotechnology, cybernetics or uploading our conciousnesses or a combination of the above. For an alternative view of what “post mortal” life might be like try the “Revelation Space” books by Alastair Reynoldsor the Culture series by Iain M. Banks. The only downside to my prediction is that I doubt it will arrive in time to save our generation so the only option for us is to do as **MrFantsyPants** suggests and > [@](#): > > Try facing down your fears of death, find out what is at the root of them, and perhaps you will learn some important things about yourself Still we can always live in hope. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/35 "2004-12-21T12:12:29Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > Love to, thank you! I would love nothing more than to live 1000 years. I’d sign up for that, too, at least if I could take a few people I care about along with me. People don’t just die of “Old Age.” That’s not a cause, it’s a catch-all term for a variety of things that become more common with age. The individual, specific causes are being worked on. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/36 "2004-12-21T12:27:50Z")
You can’t reduce death. Death is a necessity… biological recycling. It’s a part of life. You can reduce physical pain; you can get better quality of life for everybody (healthy, sick, rich, poor, good, bad… anybody got those wedding vows handy?). You can learn to accept death same as you accept being the height you are. You can make changes to prolongue your life or to make it more worth living (or less). But you can’t reduce death. I only attempt those impossibles that are doable. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/37 "2004-12-21T12:46:24Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > You can’t reduce death. > > Death is a necessity… biological recycling. > > It’s a part of life. > > … > But you can’t reduce death. I only attempt those impossibles that are doable. Why not? I think that if we can imagine a thing then sooner or later it will be possible, that is one of the great things about humanity. Why do you think that in some future time we will not be able to clone new bodies and download our conciousness or exist in some form of physical or electronic immortality? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/38 "2004-12-21T14:10:32Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > That is the greatest thing I’ve read in a year! Thank you so much! > > Someday the phrase “death is a part of life” will sound as imbecilic as “plagues are God’s punishment for our sins”. No it won’t. We need death. If it doesn’t come naturally (old age), it will come artificially (Four Horseman style). The planet cannot sustain immortal human life unless we stop producing new life (at some point). _Maybe_ in a century or two, we can start colonizing other life sustaining worlds, and then we can exceed the parameters of our single planet’s ability to sustain life. Death **is** a part of life. It is not imbecilic. If it were not, the human race would have destroyed the planet long ago and died out. Your analogy is specious. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/39 "2004-12-21T14:25:55Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Death **is** a part of life. It is not imbecilic. If it were not, the human race would have destroyed the planet long ago and died out. Your analogy is specious. It is imbecilic. Death is as much a part of life as leaving the stadium is part of the game. It’s not PART of the game, it is the END of the game. Death isn’t a PART of life, it is the END of life. Your other points have already been argued against, repeating them doesn’t make them true. As for deafeating death. Not possible, I agree. There is no such thing as immortality. Death will ALWAYS happen. We can only alieviate the disease and dying of age related deaths, and try to heal those that are close to death, but you can’t help them all. There won’t be as much of a population problem because there is still probably going to be war, earthquakes, new diseases and epidemics, car and plane accidents, tornadoes, drownings, shark attacks, etc, etc. The population will dwindle, but there will still be people having kids. Death is NOT a part of life people. You can repeat it all you want, but it is a physical impossiblity for the opposite of something be a part of it. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818/40 "2004-12-21T14:26:58Z")
Oh yes, four horsemen will come down and take us away to punish us for our sins of wanting a long and healthy life. :rolleyes: Here, wear this jacket. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arent-we-working-to-reduce-death/280818.md?page=3)