# Why arming all your citizens is a stupid idea. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905 "2018-02-16T00:43:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/101 "2018-02-19T15:33:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So why should you not be dismissed as just another absolutist? Frankly, I don’t care if you “dismiss” me or not, and I’m pretty dismissive of anyone that says “we don’t want to take away _all_ your guns.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/102 "2018-02-19T15:54:42Z")
That’s the answer, then. No need to ask what measures you \*would \*consider reasonable or could support, or if you even think there’s a problem that needs fixing. You’ve already told us. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/103 "2018-02-19T16:15:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If the answer were “the ones you don’t need”, would you be willing to list the ones you do need? I’d also posit another hypothetical: what if a compromise was offered whereby rather than being banned outright, the “ones you don’t need” - presumably in this case, AR-15s and the like - were merely subject to tighter restrictions than other guns: you have to be over 21, you have to pass some kind of extra training class, think of it as “upgrading” the gun license just like upgrading a regular driver’s license to a motorcycle license just as I was required to do by the DMV. Would you be OK with THAT? If the answer is “no”, then IMO you are just being an unreasonable absolutist and advocating an irresponsible laxity in the law. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/104 "2018-02-19T16:22:34Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I’d also posit another hypothetical: what if a compromise was offered … That’s not a “compromise”. A compromise would involve giving the RKBA community something _they_ want too. No one on the left seems to want to do that though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/105 "2018-02-19T16:41:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s not a “compromise”. A compromise would involve giving the RKBA community something _they_ want too. No one on the left seems to want to do that though. A compromise means not everybody gets everything they want, _not_ giving even more to those that don’t want to give up anything at all. So, what are you willing to give up for compromise? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/106 "2018-02-19T16:47:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A compromise means not everybody gets everything they want, _not_ giving even more to those that don’t want to give up anything at all. > So, what are you willing to give up for compromise? Nothing so long as the left’s version of compromise is “we’re only taking some of your guns.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/107 "2018-02-19T16:55:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Nothing so long as the left’s version of compromise is “we’re only taking some of your guns.” Let’s skip that song for a bit: What do you think “the left” _should_ bring to the table, and what would you be willing to bring to the table in response? ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/108 "2018-02-19T16:56:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Nothing so long as the left’s version of compromise is “we’re only taking some of your guns.” If you would re-read my post, I didn’t say anything about “taking.” ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/109 "2018-02-19T16:58:02Z")
Is requiring a CDL “taking” commercial trucks away from people? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/110 "2018-02-19T17:02:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let’s skip that song for a bit: What do you think “the left” _should_ bring to the table, and what would you be willing to bring to the table in response? Well, for example, there was much hubbub about bump stocks after the Las Vegas shooting. I’d accept seeing bump stocks treated like Title II firearms in exchange for passage of the Hearing Protection Act. TL;DR: additional restrictions on bump stocks in exchange for fewer restrictions on suppressors. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/111 "2018-02-19T17:07:08Z")
I figure a couple decades of not adding new guns to the pool of those available and destroying those used in crimes should filter guns into more responsible hands. It won’t solve all problems, but it’ll solve more than making add-on gadgets like bump stocks or a little set of testicles one can hang from the bayonet lug harder to buy. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/112 "2018-02-19T17:08:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A compromise means not everybody gets everything they want, _not_ giving even more to those that don’t want to give up anything at all. > So, what are you willing to give up for compromise? Since this seems to be turning into just another gun debate, I’d say the answer from the pro-gun side is ‘what more will you try and take once we compromise?’. As a for instance, let’s say that the current muttering about the AR-15 gets traction and a ban is proposed. If the pro-gun side compromises and allow that, what guarantees could you or your side give that they want next to go after other rifles that chamber the same round but maybe don’t look as scary? Where will the bottom be wrt grabbing the next gun that gets on the radar? Will it be all semi-autos? Revolvers? Will it stop at muzzleloaders or perhaps airguns? It seems like a silly question or series of questions, but for a lot of pro-gun people compromise in the past lead to the old adage of give an inch and the other side tries to take a mile. That’s the problem when one side such as the anti-gun side uses the tactics that they did early on…it means there can’t really be much trust between them and the opposing side. The anti-gun side used it’s power and influence to take and take and take, running roughshod over the poorly organized pro-gun side in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. But as they didn’t kill the pro-gun side, they got organized and that which didn’t kill them made them stronger…and now we have that monster unleashed, and they have no intention of compromising at this point. While your side has no intention of ever stopping. Any gun or type of gun they ban today is not an end. And the pro-gun side is at the point where they don’t see compromise as a viable option and have dug in their heels to fight any attempt to do anything, as they see every attempt in the same light. It pretty much leaves us with a microcosm of our current political system where neither side wants to compromise and where the most radical are taking over the parties and the direction those parties are going. The tea party types have pretty much taken over the Republicans and pushed out or marginalized anyone who is a moderate or even those who are different types of conservative, and right now the Progressives are trying to do the same thing in the Democratic party. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/113 "2018-02-19T17:10:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Well, for example, there was much hubbub about bump stocks after the Las Vegas shooting. I’d accept seeing bump stocks treated like Title II firearms in exchange for passage of the Hearing Protection Act. > > TL;DR: additional restrictions on bump stocks in exchange for fewer restrictions on suppressors. How about a small addition to the Hearing Protection Act that says the use of suppressors/silencers must be used in conjunction with earplugs and/or earmuffs? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/114 "2018-02-19T17:15:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How about a small addition to the Hearing Protection Act that says the use of suppressors/silencers must be used in conjunction with earplugs and/or earmuffs? Why? Most of the point of suppressors is that you can safely shoot without hearing protection? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/115 "2018-02-19T17:19:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Why? Most of the point of suppressors is that you can safely shoot without hearing protection? Because suppressors block a different range than earplugs do, and since the use of earplugs won’t interfere with the firing of the weapon, and since the purpose of this act is to protect the hearing of the young, it only makes sense to do it properly. Right? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/116 "2018-02-19T17:50:52Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Since this seems to be turning into just another gun debate, A briefer conclusion to that sentence would have been “… so let’s just invoke the slippery slope fallacy and be done with it”. That doesn’t address any problem. > [@](#): > > neither side wants to compromise Oh, bullshit. The both-sides-do-it fallacy is no more respectable. The anti-murder “side” continues to live with everything the gun-fetishists can even think of demanding. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/117 "2018-02-19T17:52:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > A compromise would involve giving the RKBA community something _they_ want too. Need, or just want? What do you “want” that you don’t already have? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/118 "2018-02-19T18:14:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Need, or just want? What do you “want” that you don’t already have? Nationwide CCW reciprocity, Hearing Protection Act, remove SBRs and SBSs, repeal NY’s SAFE Act and various California idiocies, off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/119 "2018-02-19T18:17:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Nationwide CCW reciprocity, Hearing Protection Act, remove SBRs and SBSs, repeal NY’s SAFE Act and various California idiocies, off the top of my head. Wouldn’t it have been easier to have posted the words “Complete Capitulation”? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905/120 "2018-02-19T18:21:11Z")
All, or any, of those would make us better off … how, exactly? What problems would any of that solve, or even reduce? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-arming-all-your-citizens-is-a-stupid-idea/808905.md?page=7)