# Why attack with clones (Star Wars)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2002, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385 "2002-04-13T03:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/21 "2002-04-14T01:30:30Z")
The only SW book I ever read was _Splinter in the Mind’s Eye_, and I was about twelve. Dunno much about the extended universe. However, it was my impression that the Academy that Luke was whining about wanting to join in the beginning of ANH was the _Imperial_ Acadamy, to be a pilot / stormtrooper. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/22 "2002-04-14T01:45:22Z")
i beleive it was, cuz in deleted scenes, Biggs went to the Acadamy, and told Luke (Wormie) he was about to defect. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/23 "2002-04-14T02:27:42Z")
(Digs out his _SW: Behind the Magic_ CD’s, feeling like a geek.) (_Like_ a geek?) > [@](#): > > BIGGS: I’ve missed you kid. > > LUKE: Things haven’t been the same since you left, Biggs. It’s been so quiet. > > BIGGS: Luke, I didn’t come back just to say good-bye. I shouldn’t tell you this but you’re the only one I can trust. You see, I may never come back, and I just wanted somebody to know. > > LUKE: What are you talking about? > > BIGGS: I made some friends at the Academy-- When our frigate leaves for one of the central systems, we’re going to jump ship and join the Alliance. > > LUKE: The Rebellion!?! Yes, I admit I’m a SW geek– For a laugh, look [here](http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&threadm=3cb89d84.188379350%40news.telus.net&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26group%3Dalt.fan.rawilson) and [here](http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&threadm=3cb8b654.194732426%40news.telus.net&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26group%3Dalt.fan.rawilson) for my latest geekshow on usenet. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/24 "2002-04-14T06:07:03Z")
> [@](#): > > **Blackclaw** wrote: > You just grab one of your most experienced veterans and run them thru the copier. So, will Xerox be doing product placement in Episode II? When will I be able to buy this product at Office Depot? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/25 "2002-04-14T10:48:07Z")
> [@](#): > > The movies supercede the nonsense in the books. As of Episode II it will be revealed that the Stormtroopers, and their predecessors the Clonetroopers, were clones. So that part of Zahn’s books is reduced to nil. Err… since Episode II takes place, what, thirty years before the others?, I fail to see how it will reveal that the Stormtroopers were clones. Unless there’s a scene where Palpy closes his eyes and says “I foresee, thirty years from now, I’ll still be using clones.” I take it you haven’t read the books - or if you have, you’ve forgotten it - Kirkland, because Zahn wrote that the clonemasters of the Clone Wars era had cloning techniques that had since been lost. Unless the aforementioned scene comes about, Episode II won’t contradict the books in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/26 "2002-04-14T12:57:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\* > Err… since Episode II takes place, what, thirty years before the others?, I fail to see how it will reveal that the Stormtroopers were clones. > > Unless there’s a scene where Palpy closes his eyes and says “I foresee, thirty years from now, I’ll still be using clones.”\*\* You may be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/27 "2002-04-14T20:09:00Z")
(WARNING… VAGUE SPOILERS) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*Err… since Episode II takes place, what, thirty years before the others?, I fail to see how it will reveal that the Stormtroopers were clones. \*\* Because the Clonetroopers ARE Stormtroopers in slightly different uniforms. Palpatine, in AOTC, gets permission from the Senate to form a “great Army of the Republic,” and does so by growing the clones. Since that Army will form the core of the Imperial Army, and the Clones look and function EXACTLY like Stormtroopers, why would you think that they changed practices? There’s nothing in any of the later films that says they do, unless they reveal something in Episode III. So until then, its only logical to believe that there was no change in Imperial procedure. The pseudo-canonical ramblings of Zahn aside. > [@](#): > > Unless there’s a scene where Palpy closes his eyes and says “I foresee, thirty years from now, I’ll still be using clones.” There is no scene like that in the movie. However, there is an explanation of HOW LONG its taken him to create this army and reach the point he does in Episode II, and NO INDICATION that he believes that the Clone Army is a temporary solution. He intends for them to support (read: supplant) the Jedi indefinitely. > [@](#): > > I take it you haven’t read the books - or if you have, you’ve forgotten it - Kirkland, because Zahn wrote that the clonemasters of the Clone Wars era had cloning techniques that had since been lost. What Zahn wrote doesn’t really matter. If any of it appears to contradict anything in the movies, then its out. Zahn based his “clone” stuff off of the pre-prequel stuff about Mandalorian clonemasters and whatnot. All of that has been rendered moot by Episode II. Between Episode IV, V and VI a lot of nonsense became “fact” about the Clone Wars – stuff about Mandalorians and the Republic fighting the clonemasters… all of that will be rendered nonsense by AOTC. > [@](#): > > Unless the aforementioned scene comes about, Episode II won’t contradict the books in the slightest. Perhaps not explicitly, but certianly logically. And if there is no scene in Episode III where they make a decision to switch away from clones, there is no logical reason to assume that the Stormtroopers are clones in Episodes IV, V and VI. That would certainly explain their uniform lack of skill. Zahn was uninformed when he wrote his decent books. Sadly, after his series, and the trilogy by Kevin J. Anderson the books devolved into repetative crap. However the books are only pseudo-canonical. Maintaining internal logic and continuity in the films is more important than upholding the plots to the books. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/28 "2002-04-14T20:13:09Z")
I still think the books did a better job on many counts at fleshing out a history and background for the Star Wars universe than Lucas. IIRC, didn’t the authors have to ask Lucas for permission to have certain things happen before they write them? ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/29 "2002-04-14T20:23:45Z")
Yes, but what was approved was all based on only cursory knowledge of what would later become the prequels. Lucas has said, quite bluntly, that he doesn’t care about maintaining continuity with the books. Thats why there’s a hierarchy of canonicity – Movies, then way down below that books, then comics, the role playing games, then video games. BTW, I loved your book about Hegemon Peter Wiggin. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/30 "2002-04-14T20:26:05Z")
Why thank you, it was a pet project of mine, and I’m glad I finally finished it 🙂 I think Lucas would’ve kept a lot of fans happy if he had just tweaked a few things to fit the books, at least partially. Where do the card games fit into the heirarchy? ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/31 "2002-04-14T20:49:08Z")
I think Lucas should throw out the books out of continuity altogether. I would if it were my Universe. Star Trek books are non-canonical, and it hasn’t seemed to hurt them much. Card games are in there with role playing games, I believe. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/32 "2002-04-15T13:46:01Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Kirkland1244_\*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > _Originally posted by Kirkland1244_ > > > And yes, from all indications the Stormtroopers of Episodes IV-VI are clones of Jango Fett just like the Clonetroopers of Episodes II and III. > > > > Who did they clone for the stormtroopers? The stupidest, nearsightedest, no peripheral visionest Gomer Pile in Stormtrooper Boot Camp? \*\* > > But by the time of Star Wars, you’re dealing with the copy of a copy of a copy… \*\* Which would explain how Obi-Wan is able to influence the two Stormtroopers outside the cantina. It’s impossible to make an absolute perfect copy of anything, some imperfection will always creep in. Make a copy of a copy and you maintain the original imperfections and add more. A copy of a copy of a copy will have the imperfections of the first two and some new ones. As in **Multiplicity** , “when you make a copy of a copy, it’s not as sharp as… well… the original.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/33 "2002-04-15T14:02:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Speaker for the Dead \* > \*\*Why thank you, it was a pet project of mine, and I’m glad I finally finished it 🙂 > > I think Lucas would’ve kept a lot of fans happy if he had just tweaked a few things to fit the books, at least partially. > > \*\* I believe he did do it a bit-didn’t the _Outrider_, from “Shadows of the Empire” feature in one of the SEs? And there’s one dancer at Jabba’s Palace that I believe is supposed to be Mara Jade. Zahn is a great author-unfortunately, Kevin J. Anderson is horrid. ---
**Author:** ![Nixon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@Nixon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nixon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/34 "2002-04-15T16:50:46Z")
Hmmmm, By Episode IV, is it Obi-Wan or is it Obi-One? dos centavos ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/35 "2002-04-15T19:22:24Z")
Just give up even trying to figure out how it all fits together. Since the first movie was thought up by itself it contradicts information given in the next two films. And since the first trilogy was done on it’s own with no plans for any prequel they contradict information in the new trilogy. And since the comics started flowing before the script for the second movie was done they contradict everything. And since the current run of novels started over five years before plans for the prequels formed they contradict each other. And the various games (RPG, card, video, and otherwise) came out all over the place and only reflect the state of continuity from the movies out at that point. In short, it’s a hodgepodge mess that makes no sense and will likely cause geeky debates until the end of time since so much of it is contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/36 "2002-04-15T20:03:58Z")
Another advantage of a clone army is interchangeable parts. Say one trooper gets his head blown off, and another one suffers massive heart/lung damage…just take the organs out of trooper 1 and put them in trooper 2. No tissue match issues. Just cut and paste, as it were! ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/37 "2002-04-15T21:07:52Z")
Just, by the time Empire was released, they knew full well that they intended to go back and make a prequel trilogy. That’s why they labelled Empire “Episode V.” ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/38 "2002-04-15T21:25:26Z")
Just, by the time Empire was released, they knew full well that they intended to go back and make a prequel trilogy. That’s why they labelled Empire “Episode V.” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/39 "2002-04-15T21:33:52Z")
But they didn’t. It was added to give the movie more of a serial feeling. And Lucas has made so many contradictory and revisionist statements over the years you can’t take anything he’s ever said about his plans other than what he says at the very beginning of a project into account. I’ve seen statements from the early eighties that state his plans as three, six, or nine movies which apparently depended on what kind of mood he was in. Since no sequels or prequels were in development until the late nineties (which is why the initial book authors were allowed to get away with filling in so much back story; Star Wars was a dead property that there wasn’t anything they were going to add to it) any claim of a longer range plan than the initial progression is dubious. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385/40 "2002-04-16T00:07:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > (T)here’s a hierarchy of canonicity – Movies, then way down below that books, then comics, the role playing games, then video games. And where does the SDMB Cafe Society forum fit into your hierarchy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-attack-with-clones-star-wars/103385.md?page=3)