# Why baseball now sucks! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2007, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965 "2007-07-16T12:57:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/101 "2007-07-19T18:26:31Z")
[QUOTE=spooje] Even the Dodger\Giants rivalry (which, to be honest, S.F. fans take more seriously than L.A. fans) becomes…blah…when the teams play each other EIGHTEEN FUCKING TIMES!!! [/QUOTE] Huh. Is that why, last time I saw the Giants play at Chavez Ravinea few years ago, the five giant Hispanic guys six rows behind us started yelling, “HEY! THESE FAGS FROM SAN FRANCISCO SAID THEY HATE MEXICANS!” Or [this Dodger fan shoving our mascot over](http://laist.com/2007/07/18/breaking_the_se.php)? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/102 "2007-07-19T18:36:44Z")
> [@Troy McClure SF](#): > > Done. Not at all. That’s a contrived tournament of national teams. What **Algher** is talking about is a matchup between the clubs that win the most significant national championships worldwide. > [@denquixote](#): > > what is it that you douchebags don’t understand about the word opinion? it is just one person’s perspective. You’re really out to sea. I hope you at least find a lighthouse some day. > [@denquixote](#): > > i posted this in IMHO - i was not looking for a debate Ah, and we’re not allowed to challenge it because you’re the Emperor of the Boards, right? > [@denquixote](#): > > If i were making an argument you guys might have a point You have made an argument. Just because it’s a terrible argument doesn’t mean it’s not an argument. > [@denquixote](#): > > i would provide more facts to support the argument I should hope so! Since your “opinion” is under fire, why don’t you come back in and support it? Is it because you won’t, or is it because you can’t? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/103 "2007-07-19T18:41:47Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] 18 games against a direct rival dates back to 1901, so in and of itself it’s a weird thing to complain about. [/QUOTE] It wsn’t really a complaint…more of an observation. Believe me, Vin knows **exactly** how many times each year the Dodgers have played the Giants. I don’t remember any particular inflection in his voice that would make it sound like a whine. Just commenting for those people who **don’t** know that we play up north 9 games a year. As for the drunk asshole who attacked Lou Seal…we don’t claim him. A little Silly String never hurt anybody, and that jerk didn’t even get a face full. But you’ll never hear a crowd at Chavez Ravine chanting “Beat SF! Beat SF!” We just don’t invest all that much effort into hating the Giants. They’re scum, and they employ scum, but the traffic going home gets more of our attention. Ditto the drunk Mexicans. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/104 "2007-07-19T19:27:58Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] As for the drunk asshole who attacked Lou Seal…we don’t claim him. A little Silly String never hurt anybody, and that jerk didn’t even get a face full. But you’ll never hear a crowd at Chavez Ravine chanting “Beat SF! Beat SF!” We just don’t invest all that much effort into hating the Giants. They’re scum, and they employ scum, but the traffic going home gets more of our attention. Ditto the drunk Mexicans. [/QUOTE] Well now, let’s be fair. There are plenty of Dodger fans who get into very loud chants of “Giants suck!” and, more often, “Barry sucks!” and I’m certain that not all of them are drunk. Not to mention the LA fan in SF last weekend who had the t-shirt that said, “Giants suck” on the front and “and Barry swallows!” on the back. I’m not sure this means that one group takes the games more seriously than the other. I think it’s just an indication that some LA fans are more accepting of certain behavior than fans of other teams. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/105 "2007-07-19T19:42:22Z")
[QUOTE=spooje] And I think there should be a salary cap. [/QUOTE] Why? Baseball seems to be doing fine without one. And I don’t see any reason why we need to make the owners any richer than they are. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/106 "2007-07-19T19:51:36Z")
[QUOTE=Asimovian] I’m not sure this means that one group takes the games more seriously than the other. I think it’s just an indication that some LA fans are more accepting of certain behavior than fans of other teams. [/QUOTE] What behavior would that be, winning? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![hopesperson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@hopesperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hopesperson)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/107 "2007-07-19T19:59:00Z")
[QUOTE=Uncommon Sense] Cubs, Brewers. Huge. They like to call Miller Park, “Wrigley North”. We hate them. [/QUOTE] I agree that this is a great rivalry, and we most certainly do hate them. But this has not been an interleague matchup for quite a few years now (since the Crew joined the NL). ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/108 "2007-07-19T21:44:13Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Assuming that one enjoys baseball in the first place, I have never, _never_ understood this complaint. “Ooh, hey, an activity I enjoy! Let’s get it over with as soon as possible!” When I go to a baseball game, or watch one on TV, I mean - I like it. I have fun. I want it to last as long as possible. Particularly when I’m actually in attendance - why on Earth should I root for the fun part (the game) to end, so that I can get to the drudgery of driving home? I’d be happy if the games were even _longer._ Because I enjoy them. I really don’t get the “too long” complaint. [/quote] Suppose you went to a performance of a very good play that normally runs about 2 hours. Only this time, they take 3 hours to perform it. Same lines, same action, but just performed at a slower pace. Would you like it more, or less, than the original? I enjoy _more baseball_. I’m not keen on _the same amount of baseball, just spread over more time_. > [@](#): > > Well, the NFL can manage that because each matchup consists of only one game. If you tried to stretch out the baseball playoffs that way, and if each series happened to run long, you’d be playing the last game of the World Series around Thanksgiving. The thing is, MLB _used_ to have a playoff structure like that, from 1969 to 1993. Then they decided to double the number of teams in the playoffs, which was, IMHO, a lousy idea every which way. They could have left it at four. Or they could have gone to a six-team playoff structure, with the team with the best record in each league getting a first-round bye. (Could do this either with three divisions, or two divisions and a wildcard - either way, AFAIAC.) That would have preserved the value of the 162-game season, at least for the teams with the best records; it would have made it less likely that after being the best in their league over 162 games, a short-series defeat would keep them out of the World Series; and it would have kept the number of games at any one time down to TV-manageable levels. > [@](#): > > Look at basketball Let’s not, and say we did. 🙂 > [@](#): > > This is another one I don’t get. It just seems random. Why does it matter? You never hear people complain about this in, say, football. “Too many linebackers in the NFL these days, dammit, there need to be fewer linebackers!” If each team was carrying eight linebackers, you probably would. Seriously, why do teams need to carry 11-12 pitchers? It cuts down on the number of position players they can carry. If you have 13 position players, that means an AL team is down to a 4-player bench. That’s awfully thin, and I don’t see that they’re getting much more benefit than if they had 10 pitchers, which was the norm for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/109 "2007-07-19T23:15:38Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Seriously, why do teams need to carry 11-12 pitchers? [/QUOTE] Because in order to cope with today’s extremely strong and athletic hitters, pitchers must put more velocity and movement on the ball than ever before, and painful experience has shown that teams which carry fewer than 12 pitchers either wear out their bullpen by July or run their starting pitchers onto the disabled list. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/110 "2007-07-19T23:25:54Z")
[QUOTE=Freddy the Pig] Because in order to cope with today’s extremely strong and athletic hitters, pitchers must put more velocity and movement on the ball than ever before, and painful experience has shown that teams which carry fewer than 12 pitchers either wear out their bullpen by July or **run their starting pitchers onto the disabled list.** [/QUOTE] Something for which Tommy LaSorda was infamous. He’d always leave a starting pitcher in about an inning too long, and we paid the price for it with a list of injuries a mile long during his tenure. I love the guy, and thought he was a great manager, but I really wanted to slap him for this tendency. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/111 "2007-07-20T03:03:53Z")
What I have noticed is how many bats break. Therer must be 3 or 4 a game. Someone is going to get hurt. I have seen bat barrels come close to pitchers and fielders several times. Oddly when they used pink bats for mothers day ,I did not see any break. So maybe we should paint them all the time. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/112 "2007-07-20T03:06:38Z")
[QUOTE=Freddy the Pig] Because in order to cope with today’s extremely strong and athletic hitters, pitchers must put more velocity and movement on the ball than ever before, and painful experience has shown that teams which carry fewer than 12 pitchers either wear out their bullpen by July or run their starting pitchers onto the disabled list. [/QUOTE] The way I see it, that’s because the role of middle relief - a guy who can pitch 3-4 innings, instead of just 1 or 2, when your starter gets knocked out in the 5th inning - seems to have gone by the boards. Let’s face it, it burns up bullpen arms a lot faster to go through three pitchers in three innings, than to use just one. And if you do that sort of thing, yes, you’re going to have to carry 12 pitchers. And if you’re expecting 5-6 innings out of your fifth starter every five days, then surely you can find a reliever or two who can do 3 innings twice a week. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/113 "2007-07-20T03:08:45Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Something for which Tommy LaSorda was infamous. He’d always leave a starting pitcher in about an inning too long, and we paid the price for it with a list of injuries a mile long during his tenure. I love the guy, and thought he was a great manager, but I really wanted to slap him for this tendency. [/QUOTE] And Earl Weaver didn’t leave his starters in too long, but managed to get by with 9-10 pitchers. Hell, in 1978, he had only 8 pitchers for much of the season, and two of those were a washed-up Nelson Briles, and a worthless Joe Kerrigan. That team won 90 games. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/114 "2007-07-20T05:01:45Z")
[QUOTE=Asimovian] I’m curious as to why you think this is. I’ve been to many Dodgers/Giants games in LA and witnessed lots of fights and lots of trash talk from both sides. [/QUOTE] Actually, I was just repeating it. Charlie Steiner said it on the air over the weekend on the Dodger broadcast. His color commentator backed him right away. Maybe it’s just that we don’t have anything as nifty to chant as _Beat L.A_. We tried chanting _Beat S.F._ but we just felt foolish. [QUOTE=Rickjay] For sixty years, under the old 154-game system, teams played every other team in the league twenty-two times. From 1961/1962 to 1968, under the ten-team league, 162-game system, they played every other team 18 times. [/QUOTE] In 1962, there were 20 teams in the league. And 18 of those teams would only be facing _9 other teams in their entire season_. How is that good? How does that serve the fans? How is that even logical? You’re in a proffesional system with 19 other teams, but the most teams you can face in a season, even if your are the best in your league, is 10. Seriously. 162 games and only 9 opponents? The current system is far better. Inter-league play is a good first step but I think we should go further. How about we fully avail ourselves of the opportunity for variety? ---
**Author:** ![Tazmanian\_Devil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@Tazmanian\_Devil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tazmanian_Devil)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2007, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/115 "2007-07-20T07:15:57Z")
[QUOTE=Asimovian] But then you wouldn’t get [moments like these](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GOtAQ__wks). [/QUOTE] Also, there was the time in the 1972 World Series where Johnny Bench thought he was being intentionally walked, only to have the catcher suddenly crouch behind home plate, as Rollie Fingers threw a perfect strike three to make Bench look like a complete fool. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/116 "2007-07-21T19:30:53Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > What I have noticed is how many bats break. Therer must be 3 or 4 a game. Someone is going to get hurt. I have seen bat barrels come close to pitchers and fielders several times. Oddly when they used pink bats for mothers day ,I did not see any break. So maybe we should paint them all the time. The difference is what they’re made out of. The ones that break easy are the maplewood bats. I can’t for the life of me understand why MLB hasn’t banned them yet–they’re clearly a catastrophic injury and major lawsuit waiting to happen. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2007, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/117 "2007-07-21T19:36:02Z")
How so? Injury, yes. Lawsuit, no way. The players can’t sue, and neither can the fans. Read the back of your ticket sometime. You “assume the risk” by entering the ballpark. Not to say that those cheapo bats shouldn’t be done away with, mind you. Whatever happened to the old ones that lasted a season? ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/118 "2007-07-22T01:08:12Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] How so? Injury, yes. Lawsuit, no way. The players can’t sue, and neither can the fans. Read the back of your ticket sometime. You “assume the risk” by entering the ballpark. Not to say that those cheapo bats shouldn’t be done away with, mind you. Whatever happened to the old ones that lasted a season? [/QUOTE] They can write whatever they want on the ticket, that doesn’t make it the law. Assumption of the risk varies from state to state. In some it precludes the plaintiff from arguing that the defendant is negligent and in others it does not. It just depends on where you live. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/119 "2007-07-22T02:08:51Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] How so? Injury, yes. Lawsuit, no way. The players can’t sue, and neither can the fans. Read the back of your ticket sometime. You “assume the risk” by entering the ballpark. Not to say that those cheapo bats shouldn’t be done away with, mind you. Whatever happened to the old ones that lasted a season? [/QUOTE] Those bats cracked all the time, they just didn’t usually break. Today’s bats are of far higher quality in terms of materials and workmanship. However, they’re deliberately built with thinner handles, to allow more weight to be put towards the business end of the bat. That makes them a lot likelier to snap off at the handle. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2007, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965/120 "2007-07-22T07:51:43Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > neither can the fans. Read the back of your ticket sometime. You “assume the risk” by entering the ballpark. Sure, but there may be a court ambitious enough to at least allow the fan (or fan’s family) to make a nuisance of themselves. And MLB might scramble to offer a massive settlement instead of letting the fan/family file a motion, to avoid a PR disaster. Which means money lost as a direct result of letting players use maple bats. > [@silenus](#): > > Not to say that those cheapo bats shouldn’t be done away with, mind you. There _must_ be something the players like about them. Barry Bonds is probably their most prominent (or notorious) fan, and you can’t tell me he buys them to save money. Maybe they have a bigger sweet spot, or it’s harder to tell if they’re tarred up, or they feel lighter or something. > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Maple bats cost more than white ash, but they often last longer as a result of their high strength. Can’t be right. Broken bats have been on the rise since 2001, when Bonds broke the single-season HR record with a maple bat and copycats started coming out of the woodwork. I’ll do some more research on this later; for now, I must get to bed. Or, what **RickJay** said. What do you know about maple bats, **Rick**? Are they sturdier, but more likely to shatter than they are to crack? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-baseball-now-sucks/411965.md?page=7)