# Why believe in "a" God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 29, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967 "2005-09-29T02:32:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/121 "2005-09-30T02:49:19Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > \ \*I’m not worthy… I’m not worthy… \* \ > > :rolleyes: Again you make the mistaken assumption that my commentary on intelligence has something to do with the value of your existance. All I am trying to illustrate is that without something that is a fundamental truth, you lack the ability to be correct about anything. You do not believe that this is a fundamental truth so we are at an impasse. In my opinion it’s kind of like the Jeff Foxworthy joke about the kid pulling the TV down onto their own head, that doing it a couple times will teach them. So I figure that the longer you struggle with falsehood, eventually you’ll see the light and know the truth. You however, do not believe this is the truth. You act as though you have any greater respect for me or my beliefs than I have for yours. To truly understand what I am saying, you’d have to believe in God, as the belief in God informs upon every decision I have ever made, every thought I have ever had, and while I’ve toyed with atheism, and questioned my belief, and what it is I believe, I have never truly been an atheist, the existence of God is simply too apparent to me. I do not harbor any illusions that God is omnibenevolent, as God represents the entire range of existence, and is benevolent or cruel. However, I do believe in free will, and believe that God never ever does anything to us we didn’t ask to happen, so perhaps that is benevolent. God is the whole, the entirety of the universe, every aspect of it is conscious of itself. To me atheism is disrespectful, as it assumes that you are conscious whereas other things in the universe are not. I did not claim that you are unconscious, I merely claimed that you are stupid, this is far less disrespectful than believing that a rock which is conscious is not conscious. Though the atheist is more impacted by his own disrespect than the rock is. Take that as you will, you do not need my acceptance to live your life, though you have it. Even if I didn’t accept your existance the best I could hope for is that myself and other consciousness could come to a consensus and vote you off the island, which to my estimation would do nothing except shift you somewhere in the grand scheme less proximal to myself. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Erinaceus\_europaeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@Erinaceus\_europaeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erinaceus_europaeus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/122 "2005-09-30T02:50:57Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > So while your body may decay and decompose and deconstruct, it will do so for eternity in the bowels of the creatures that eat you and the creatures that eat them, your effects upon the conciousness of those around you will impact upon the flow of their lives just as the rock you skipped impacted the flow of the river in which you skipped it. Yup. This is why I don’t need a god or an afterlife. Isn’t the universe an amazing place? I personally don’t think my conciousness will last any longer than the rest of my body, though. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/123 "2005-09-30T02:56:31Z")
> [@Erinaceus europaeus](#): > > Yup. This is why I don’t need a god or an afterlife. Isn’t the universe an amazing place? I personally don’t think my conciousness will last any longer than the rest of my body, though. See, that’s my point. It’s not a matter of needing God, God simply is. There is no afterlife because life never ends. Your body will live forever, it will simply change forms. That is the point I was attempting to make. Does your current body contain the same matter as it did when you were born? If the matter is in a constant state of flux, then how does the pattern persist? When a Hurricane blows down a house, that house still exists, it just exists in the form of a house disassembled into many pieces, but it still exists, it’s impact of having existed is still there, it’s foundation is still around, it’s boards may now be splinters but the carbon atoms that formed them are still there affecting the same ecosystem. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Erinaceus\_europaeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@Erinaceus\_europaeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erinaceus_europaeus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/124 "2005-09-30T03:08:24Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > See, that’s my point. It’s not a matter of needing God, God simply is. There is no afterlife because life never ends. Your body will live forever, it will simply change forms. That is the point I was attempting to make. Does your current body contain the same matter as it did when you were born? If the matter is in a constant state of flux, then how does the pattern persist? When a Hurricane blows down a house, that house still exists, it just exists in the form of a house disassembled into many pieces, but it still exists, it’s impact of having existed is still there, it’s foundation is still around, it’s boards may now be splinters but the carbon atoms that formed them are still there affecting the same ecosystem. If god simply is, where is he? The universe works just as well without him, as far as I can see. Ofcourse, if you define god to be the universe, well, what’s so supernatural about it? My body will not live forever. It will die, decompose and take on other forms, as most parts of my body have been doing for as long as I live. Life is what makes the pattern persist. Without life, the pattern vanishes. When a hurricane blows down a house, there is no house, even if the rubble still exists. “Ashes to ashes”, as they say . ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/125 "2005-09-30T03:13:37Z")
> [@Erinaceus europaeus](#): > > If god simply is, where is he? You’re confusing God with something that exists in time and space, which by definition, God does not. > [@Erinaceus europaeus](#): > > The universe works just as well without him, as far as I can see. How would you know this to be true? Would the universe exist at all? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/126 "2005-09-30T03:15:30Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Again you make the mistaken assumption that my commentary on intelligence has something to do with the value of your existance. All I am trying to illustrate is that without something that is a fundamental truth, you lack the ability to be correct about anything. Oh I think I’m beginning to feel quiet certain about something. > [@mswas](#): > > You do not believe that this is a fundamental truth so we are at an impasse. In my opinion it’s kind of like the Jeff Foxworthy joke about the kid pulling the TV down onto their own head, that doing it a couple times will teach them. So I figure that the longer you struggle with falsehood, eventually you’ll see the light and know the truth. I can see where I went wrong now… All this time I’ve been reading Spinoza and he’s not funny at all. I may have to rethink my approach. > [@mswas](#): > > You however, do not believe this is the truth. You act as though you have any greater respect for me or my beliefs than I have for yours. Well, not your’s specifically, but the great thinkers are always misunderstood in their time. Do go on… > [@mswas](#): > > To truly understand what I am saying, you’d have to believe in God, as the belief in God informs upon every decision I have ever made, every thought I have ever had, and while I’ve toyed with atheism, and questioned my belief, and what it is I believe, I have never truly been an atheist, the existence of God is simply too apparent to me. I do not harbor any illusions that God is omnibenevolent, as God represents the entire range of existence, and is benevolent or cruel. However, I do believe in free will, and believe that God never ever does anything to us we didn’t ask to happen, so perhaps that is benevolent. Well I find myself asking him for something right now, yet you continue typing… > [@mswas](#): > > God is the whole, the entirety of the universe, every aspect of it is conscious of itself. To me atheism is disrespectful, as it assumes that you are conscious whereas other things in the universe are not. I did not claim that you are unconscious, I merely claimed that you are stupid, this is far less disrespectful than believing that a rock which is conscious is not conscious. Though the atheist is more impacted by his own disrespect than the rock is. \ Wow! Boy… that’s something… phewww… acid flashback… \ > [@mswas](#): > > Take that as you will, you do not need my acceptance to live your life, though you have it. Even if I didn’t accept your existance the best I could hope for is that myself and other consciousness could come to a consensus and vote you off the island, which to my estimation would do nothing except shift you somewhere in the grand scheme less proximal to myself. No worries **mswas**. I’m quite certain we’ll never travel in the same social circles. ---
**Author:** ![Erinaceus\_europaeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@Erinaceus\_europaeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erinaceus_europaeus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/127 "2005-09-30T03:17:34Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > You’re confusing God with something that exists in time and space, which by definition, God does not. How would you know this to be true? Would the universe exist at all? Erm, I’m not making this stuff up, I’m trying to get an explanation: > [@mswas](#): > > It’s not a matter of needing God, God simply is. Anyway, I have much more evidence for the universe than for any god. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/128 "2005-09-30T03:28:42Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > See, that’s my point. It’s not a matter of needing God, God simply is. There is no afterlife because life never ends. Your body will live forever, it will simply change forms. Yes but mail will slowly taper off. > [@mswas](#): > > Does your current body contain the same matter as it did when you were born? No it does not. Neither does your’s. > [@mswas](#): > > If the matter is in a constant state of flux, then how does the pattern persist? Biochemical processes within the cells. > [@mswas](#): > > When a Hurricane blows down a house, that house still exists, it just exists in the form of a house disassembled into many pieces, but it still exists, it’s impact of having existed is still there, it’s foundation is still around, it’s boards may now be splinters but the carbon atoms that formed them are still there affecting the same ecosystem. You should notify the survivors of Katrina and Rita of the good news. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/129 "2005-09-30T03:37:00Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You should notify the survivors of Katrina and Rita of the good news. Yes, because of course they were the first to ever have anything unpleasant happen to them in human history. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/130 "2005-09-30T03:39:56Z")
> [@Erinaceus europaeus](#): > > Anyway, I have much more evidence for the universe than for any god. God is the universe conscious of itself, whereas the universe is just a term for the thing. The two terms are far from mutually exclusive. The term universe means roughly “One Word”. ‘In the Beginning there was the word.’ To me the existence of a ‘verse’ implies consciousness. For instance in biblical texts, the sections are referred to as “verses”. The Universe would be the culmination of all verses that ever have been and ever will be spoken anywhere, in a single cohesive statement. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/131 "2005-09-30T03:54:53Z")
> [@Everything is Crazy-Go-Nuts!](#): > > So let me ask you: why is it possible that “all of us” may be wrong or right, but we can’t be some right and some wrong? I can’t speak to generalised rightness or wrongness, but I know that none of the religious paths that I follow claim to be right for or suited to all people in the first place, so the fact that other people follow other paths strikes me as utterly normal and unremarkable, not something that has to be a matter of rectitude. One has to be far more specific than “not sharing my religion” or “not sharing my belief system” before I have enough data to judge whether I think something is right or wrong. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![drmark2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@drmark2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drmark2000)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/132 "2005-09-30T04:17:32Z")
Keep it going, Leaffan. You have encountered what any poster to this board encounters when posing a question of genuine relevance: vituperative contempt from the majority, spiced with a few responses of understanding from the minority of authentic seekers of knowledge and understanding. Formal religion and “faith” are a crock. Everyone knows it. Those who espouse such things, when challenged, defend them at brutish length. Life is, in fact, a “random happenstance on Earth,” as you put it. It’s all just a bunch of stuff that’s happening at this moment. None of it has any meaning, at least in any sense that a human being has of that word. Having said that, human beings have relatively abundant capacities for self-awareness and imagination. We each know that we exist, and we consequently know that, someday, we each will cease to exist. What a bitch, for a creature endowed, as are all creatures, with a survival instinct. It’s a nasty bind. So, using our uniquely fertile imaginations, we concoct some cock-and-bull stories about how there’s a really nice Daddy and/or Mommy up there in the sky (generally quite unlike our own down here on Earth), who’s watching it all go on, and is very benevolent and will reward us after we die, with all nice things, all of the time, after we die, if we only heed its “will,“ its “will“ being something which we also make up. Challenge such beliefs, as you have done, and you are like a big kid who walks up to little kid holding and loving a stuffed animal that the kid has grown attached to and pretends is real, and ripping it out of his hands. The little kid cries and wails, stomps his little feet and tantrums, because he has become very attached to the myth he has created around some pieces of cloth and stuffing, even knowing, deep in his heart, it is a lie he himself has created. Don’t get me wrong; I applaud you. You want the meaning of life? Take a walk in the woods. Eventually, you’ll encounter, say, a dead tree, fallen over and rotting. It had its birth, and its life, and now it’s dead. The materials consituting it, including its life force (or “soul,” as we like to call our own life force) will be recycled the same as everything in the universe. Any human being who thinks they are anything more than this is a rank egotist. And now, my friend, I’m a gonna take a hike, in the woods, and marvel at how I can find a merciless and relentless process of natural selection so utterly beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![drmark2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@drmark2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drmark2000)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/133 "2005-09-30T04:31:35Z")
Oh, yeah, and as for “debate,” that’s another thing you’ll find the turds on this board harping about when you propose an idea that diverges from their own. It’s just their way… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/134 "2005-09-30T05:21:19Z")
> [@drmark2000](#): > > Oh, yeah, and as for “debate,” that’s another thing you’ll find the turds on this board harping about when you propose an idea that diverges from their own. It’s just their way… Well, the Forum _is_ **Great Debates**. If one wishes to simply rant on about things without serious challenge, this is ceratinly not the Forum to expect that. (There really is not any Forum, here, where one will not be challenged, but that is the nature of the site, in general.) Now this particular thread has had reasonable comment from both sides of the issue (along with some witnessing such as that in which you have just indulged). However, if you are only here to insult other posters, calling them “turds” and such, you should probably find another venue for your bile. If you have the need to call people names, take it to the **Pit** ; do not do it here, again. [/Moderator Mode] ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/135 "2005-09-30T05:26:59Z")
> [@](#): > > As for my opinion, personally. I think atheism is a form of retardation, and that there is a glass ceiling for atheists. That the smartest atheist is less intelligent than any person who is truly secure in their faith, as one who is secure in their faith can access the “God mind” and know anything they want at any given time. In otherwords it is not possible to become enlightened without a belief in God, as God is a fundamental part of the universe. It’s like trying to build an arch without the keystone. And for the record, I don’t think that proselytizing christians out on the street are truly secure in their faith, but unlike atheists they are on the path. Seek and ye shall find and all that. First, every study I’ve heard of say that atheists tend to be more intelligent and better educated. Second, “faith” and “intelligence” are opposites; faith is about _not_ thinking. Claiming it makes you smarter is silly. Third, “God mind” ? :rolleyes: You really believe the religious have mystic powers of knowledge ? When was the last time revelatory “knowledge” turned out to be true ? One of the distinguishing marks that make science superior to religion is that it works; your mystic knowledge never pans out. > [@](#): > > Your statement that there is no afterlife is completely unsupportable, and doesn’t even address the idea of an afterlife as it seems you haven’t particularly delved into the subject you are dismissing. Wrong. All the evidence says precisely that. For example, brain damage. If you lose brain tissue, you lose some of yourself. The obvious conclusion is that if your brain dies, you’re gone. > [@](#): > > All of Newton’s experiments were part of a divine pursuit on his part. In short he was an alchemist and astrologer. You will note that that area of his search for knowledge never panned out. Why ? Simple, they were religious/superstitious in nature, and therefore dead ends. > [@](#): > > Basically the God question for me comes down to this. “Do you believe in consciousness at all?” and the second part would be “Do you believe that all the universe is conscious or only certain parts of it?” and the third part would be “If you are conscious, then are you not the universe being conscious of itself?” God would be the aggregation of all consciousness. Consciousness comes from the brain. Rocks and trees and just about everything else have no brain, and therefore are not conscious. The universe has nothing to be conscious _with_. > [@](#): > > How do you define what is you? Are you your body? Are you your philosophy? Are you your experiences? If you’ve ever skipped a rock, are you not the new postion that the rock has at the bottom of the river? Are you not the streets you have walked down in your town? Are you not the flakes of your skin in the cracks between the floorboards? Are you not your pets, or your friends? Are you not the posts you make on this message board? And like the rock you skipped that has forever altered the flow of the river, are you not the perpetual ripples that go out into the matter/energy from the points that you impact? Are you not going to live on as long as anything that I affect now that you have affected my life? So if I have children will you not live on through them via me? I am my mind, and nothing else. When it goes, I am dead. My body is just a vehicle for it. > [@](#): > > You however, do not believe this is the truth. You act as though you have any greater respect for me or my beliefs than I have for yours. To truly understand what I am saying, you’d have to believe in God, as the belief in God informs upon every decision I have ever made, every thought I have ever had, and while I’ve toyed with atheism, and questioned my belief, and what it is I believe, I have never truly been an atheist, the existence of God is simply too apparent to me. I do not harbor any illusions that God is omnibenevolent, as God represents the entire range of existence, and is benevolent or cruel. However, I do believe in free will, and believe that God never ever does anything to us we didn’t ask to happen, so perhaps that is benevolent. God is the whole, the entirety of the universe, every aspect of it is conscious of itself. To me atheism is disrespectful, as it assumes that you are conscious whereas other things in the universe are not. I did not claim that you are unconscious, I merely claimed that you are stupid, this is far less disrespectful than believing that a rock which is conscious is not conscious. Though the atheist is more impacted by his own disrespect than the rock is. Do you have any _evidence_ for all this ? How can a rock or the universe be conscious ? > [@](#): > > See, that’s my point. It’s not a matter of needing God, God simply is. There is no afterlife because life never ends. Your body will live forever, it will simply change forms. That is the point I was attempting to make. Does your current body contain the same matter as it did when you were born? If the matter is in a constant state of flux, then how does the pattern persist? When a Hurricane blows down a house, that house still exists, it just exists in the form of a house disassembled into many pieces, but it still exists, it’s impact of having existed is still there, it’s foundation is still around, it’s boards may now be splinters but the carbon atoms that formed them are still there affecting the same ecosystem. You sound like the ultimate materialist. The mere fact that the atoms of something survive doesn’t mean that thing survives; it’s the arrangement of atoms into patterns that define an object. You have claimed immortality by redefining existence down to it’s crudest level. > [@](#): > > God is the universe conscious of itself, whereas the universe is just a term for the thing. The two terms are far from mutually exclusive. The term universe means roughly “One Word”. ‘In the Beginning there was the word.’ To me the existence of a ‘verse’ implies consciousness. For instance in biblical texts, the sections are referred to as “verses”. The Universe would be the culmination of all verses that ever have been and ever will be spoken anywhere, in a single cohesive statement. Now that…simply makes no sense at all. > [@Walloon](#): > > Many believers would say the Big Guy shows up every day in their lives. Well, unless they come up with evidence, I think it’s safe to assume them wrong. > [@Walloon](#): > > How would you know this to be true? Would the universe exist at all? Why wouldn’t it ? There’s no evidence of a god, nor is there evidence the universe needs a god. ---
**Author:** ![drmark2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@drmark2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drmark2000)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/136 "2005-09-30T05:57:40Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If you have the need to call people names, take it to the **Pit** ; do not do it here, again.[/Moderator Mode] Or what? The wimpishness around here is absolutely astounding! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/137 "2005-09-30T06:12:02Z")
Since you consider courtesy wimpish, we’ll approach this differently. You can resume posting in another 24 hours, after you’ve sat out this Warning. [/Moderator Mode] ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/138 "2005-09-30T06:50:42Z")
> [@Pocahontas](#): > > Not nearly as odd as manna and a pillar of smoke by day and fire by night. What sort of poop does manna leave anyway? What sort of traces do nomadic camps leave anyway? I know that there were a large number together, so that might help them leave discernible traces. It is hard enough to get good archeological evidence from fixed sites, but just how do you find nomadic camps whose sites were well-policed? > > The pattern would be quite recognizable if found, because of their well-documented shape. Of course absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I would like to hear your proposed methodology to settle such a question given the difficulties I listed. It might not be as hard as defining the temperature of the earth is, but I think it would be very hard to do. We don’t have hard evidence of the pillar of smoke, nor could we. But we’re not talking about a Boy Scout troop here; we’re talking about hundreds of thousands of people. They also didn’t move everyday - they camped for a while in some places. Plus, it is the desert, where things get preserved. Absence of evidence where evidence should surely be is indeed evidence of absence. There are lots more reasons why the Bible is inaccurate, again I recommend you read the books. The writers of the Bible were certainly familiar with the Sinai, so it is no great surprise that they got the features right. Perhaps Mt. Sinai was a holy place in the pre-Jewish religion. So them knowing about it is not evidence of the accuracy of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/139 "2005-09-30T06:54:01Z")
> [@Everything is Crazy-Go-Nuts!](#): > > One last time before I head off to bed: let me urge anyone who is really curious about the Israelites in the wilderness, there is evidence, but it’s in Arabia, not the Sinai peninsula (please see previous post about this). You can order a copy of the film at [www.monumentpictures.com](http://www.monumentpictures.com) It is about $20, but hey, education ain’t cheap! Night, all! Have fun discussing! Just as good as publication in a peer-reviewed research journal, no doubt. You can buy all sorts of movies about Noah’s Ark, too. Just proves that conmen are allowed to buy movie cameras. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967/140 "2005-09-30T07:01:08Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Interesting. What would it look like? People wouldn’t die horrible deaths in floods for a start. While this god would not control everything, it would also make its existence evident at least to the level the supposed god of the Bible did. People would mess up, but not from being given a bad hand at birth - inbuilt antisocial tendencies, low intelligence, propensity to alcoholism, for example. Oh - and there would be a loud voice from the sky saying “You schmucks, let them get married already!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-believe-in-a-god/323967.md?page=8)