# Why both a hard 'c' sound and the letter 'k'?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-both-a-hard-c-sound-and-the-letter-k/85220>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [October 3, 2001, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-both-a-hard-c-sound-and-the-letter-k/85220 "2001-10-03T17:40:07Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 7\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![tevya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@tevya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tevya)\
**Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-both-a-hard-c-sound-and-the-letter-k/85220/1 "2001-10-03T17:40:07Z")

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I was so impressed with the responses to the “When is W a vowel” thread, I decided to post a letter question of my own.

Why is it necessary to have the hard ‘c’ sound represented by both the letter ‘c’ and the letter ‘k’ in the English language? Isn’t it a bit redundant? Couldn’t we do without the letter ‘k’ and just use the letter ‘c’?

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**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\
**Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-both-a-hard-c-sound-and-the-letter-k/85220/2 "2001-10-03T17:45:05Z")

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I think it’s tradition, the hard ‘c’ coming over from the Latin languages and the ‘k’ from the Germanic side. Then those nutty Angled Saxons just mixed everything around.

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**Author:** ![Arjuna34](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Arjuna34](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arjuna34)\
**Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-both-a-hard-c-sound-and-the-letter-k/85220/3 "2001-10-03T18:51:06Z")

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Here’s a related GQ thread about the use of K in Latin:

[The letter K in Latin kalendae](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=54630)

There’s some good info in there about early K’s

Arjuna34

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**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\
**Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-both-a-hard-c-sound-and-the-letter-k/85220/4 "2001-10-03T18:53:38Z")

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FWIW, there are two different sounds that can be denoted by ‘c’ or ‘k’. Try starting the words “kin” and “cat”, and notice where your tongue goes.

There’s no particular correspondence between which sound is denoted by which letter, though.

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**Author:** ![Nyrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/919ad9/32.png) [@Nyrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nyrath)\
**Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-both-a-hard-c-sound-and-the-letter-k/85220/5 "2001-10-04T15:18:49Z")

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In the documentation to the synthetic language [Lojban](http://www.lojban.org/), they note that in English, the letter “C” is pretty redundant. In all words that it occurs in, it can be phonetically replaced by either a “K” or an “S”.

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**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\
**Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-both-a-hard-c-sound-and-the-letter-k/85220/6 "2001-10-04T15:43:46Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by **Nyrath** _  
> In the documentation to the synthetic language Lojban, they note that in English, the letter “C” is pretty redundant. In all words that it occurs in, it can be phonetically replaced by either a “K” or an “S”.

Care to explain ‘chin’?

Tenebras

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**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\
**Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-both-a-hard-c-sound-and-the-letter-k/85220/7 "2001-10-04T21:34:36Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Tenebras \*  
> \*\*
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > _Originally posted by **Nyrath** _  
> > In the documentation to the synthetic language Lojban, they note that in English, the letter “C” is pretty redundant. In all words that it occurs in, it can be phonetically replaced by either a “K” or an “S”.
> 
> Care to explain ‘chin’?
> 
> Tenebras \*\*

The ‘ch’ sound in “chin” is a combination of the ‘k’ from “kin” and the ‘sh’ from “shin”.