# Why can't Biden get more traction from the economy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 18, 2024, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736 "2024-05-18T13:12:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/724 "2024-06-10T15:26:32Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > The typical American’s reaction is nothing because the typical American doesn’t follow job reports and is barely tied into the news. And yet 49% of Americans hold the opinion that unemployment is at a “50 year record **high** ”. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/725 "2024-06-10T15:28:49Z")
Biden’s team needs to be hammering the economy numbers and standing on a soap box while they do it. When MN is barely showing a win for Biden, there is a real problem with messaging. And they shouldn’t have some wonk delivering the message. Explain it like the electorate is five years old. Tell them how it takes time for shelf price to catch up with dropping costs, etc. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/726 "2024-06-10T15:56:55Z")
Anecdotal, and hard to go into detail succinctly, but I’ll throw it out there. Around here, grocery prices are indeed going down in the sense that _sale prices_ (as opposed to base retail prices) are getting lower. Impulse purchases and non-price-sensitive purchases (e.g.“_I just go through and pick up what I need. I don’t look a the circular_”) are about the same as they were a year ago, but sale prices on many staple items were well down from a year ago. We’re getting better discounts than a year ago. A few quick examples (all examples local to New Orleans, LA): **Bottled water, 24 x 0.5-liter cases:** In 2021, four cases @ $10 was a common sales price that you could count on catching at least once or twice a month (not always the same store). By mid-2022, three cases @ $12 was about as good as the sales got. Within the last month or so, three cases @ $10 is getting common, and there’s been sightings of three for $9 and even two for $5. **Brand-name soft drinks, 6 x 0.5-liter packs:** 12-18 months ago, Buy Two Get Two free at $7.99 apiece (so about $4 per six-pack) would pop up somewhere maybe once a month. These days, four for $12 is the once-a-month sale price and $3.25/pack pops up occasionally. Checking out the circulars, you can now always find a close-by store selling the six-packs discounted to $4 apiece. **Eggs:** During the worst of the egg price hikes a year or so ago, finding Eggland’s Best 24-pack of large eggs for $6.99 was a steal of a sales price – the store brands were higher at the time! Just this morning, I picked up two dozen extra large eggs (store brand) for $3.44. **Boneless chicken breasts:** Late 2022, $2.79/lb was the stock-up-the-freezer price. Today, $1.99/lb is the typical sales price, and you can count on it that _somewhere_ will offer that discount at least every other week. **Brand-name potato chips / tortilla chips / etc.:** If you’re brand-insensitive, you can find circa-2019 prices on many kinds of chips every weekend (likely have to buy two or more bags). True, if you echew the sale prices, you’ll be paying at least 50% more than pre-pandemic. But the discounts are frequent and deep. EDIT: And it’s hard for me to imagine this is all unique to the New Orleans area. Price-sensitive shoppers should be noticing similar price breaks in other parts of the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/727 "2024-06-10T16:00:05Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > And yet 49% of Americans hold the opinion that unemployment is at a “50 year record **high** ”. Which would tie into the uninformed nature of the voters. You mean a bunch of people who don’t pay attention to job reports have an uninformed and erroneous view of the unemployment rate based on personal vibes? Shocker. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/728 "2024-06-10T16:18:39Z")
The point is, if they were not paying attention they should just shrug or say “I don’t know”. Having the _very specific_ opinion that unemployment is at a 50-year record high speaks of that thing, that we’re not allowed to say, and that rhymes with “Blissinformation”. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/729 "2024-06-10T16:24:50Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > The point is, if they were not paying attention they should just shrug or say “I don’t know”. Or, you know, go with their gut feeling based on other personal experiences with the economy. But, hey, once the NYT did a stupid fact check about how we don’t have unemployment numbers from 1804. I’m sure that’s totally what drove people’s perceptions! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/730 "2024-06-14T16:42:08Z")
Split this topic on June 14, 2024, 4:42pm UTC 7 posts were split to a new topic: [ChuckTaylor Trocking posts](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chucktaylor-trocking-posts/1002881) Excellent chance Chucky here is also SyncoSmalls. Please flag any similar trolling posts in this thread if they pop up. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/731 "2024-06-10T16:33:23Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Or, you know, go with their gut feeling based on other personal experiences with the economy. And yet, as pointed out to you repeatedly, when you poll people on how well they personally are doing, or even [how well their state is doing](https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2024/05/28/the-2024-elections-americans-have-wildly-different-perceptions-of-the-biden-economy-and-the-election-hangs-in-the-balance/), you get a very different answer to the question of how well _America_ is doing. They only get pessimistic talking about America, and their “gut feels” strangely coincide with a lot of the messaging put out in RW media since the day Biden took office. With Republican voters having a particularly negative view of how badly America is doing. Nah, must be a coincidence. > [@Jophiel](#): > > But, hey, once the NYT did a stupid fact check about how we don’t have unemployment numbers from 1804. I’m sure that’s totally what drove people’s perceptions! What are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/732 "2024-06-10T16:38:20Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > > [@Mijin](#): > > > > And yet 49% of Americans hold the opinion that unemployment is at a “50 year record **high** ” . > > Which would tie into the **uninformed** nature of the voters . Thinking on this some … people who say today that "_Unemployment is at a 50-year record high!_” aren’t actually **UN** informed. They’re not empty vessels on the unemployment point – some information is, in fact, in their brains regarding unemployment. Problem is … it’s **MIS** information. I don’t know if misinformation begets vibes, or if vibes begets susceptibility to misinformation. But either way, they seem to appear in the same places together. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/733 "2024-06-10T16:40:26Z")
If you ask people a question they will give you an answer. That is kind how people work. It isn’t a specific opinion, it is answering a question. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/734 "2024-06-10T16:42:10Z")
I personally think it is way more uninformed than misinformed. If you ask people similar factual questions that are not politized you are still going to get wildly inaccurate answers. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/735 "2024-06-10T16:45:02Z")
I think is a very risky approach for Biden to focus on. Biden’s is already seen as old and out of touch with a lot of young Americans. Telling them things are actually great and you just need patient does not strike me as a winning argument. I think he much better off on being empathetic with their economic situations and focus on the steps he is and will take to help the economy. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/736 "2024-06-10T16:45:02Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > And yet, as pointed out to you repeatedly, when you poll people on how well they personally are doing, or even [how well their state is doing](https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2024/05/28/the-2024-elections-americans-have-wildly-different-perceptions-of-the-biden-economy-and-the-election-hangs-in-the-balance/), you get a very different answer to the question of how well _America_ is doing. Do ya? [Financial Times/Michigan Ross poll, May 30 - June 3](https://globalstrategygroup.app.box.com/s/u7h0jlcjz0e2hj76mdw41a5ixsfkhml6) (Link to Box hosting it) _How would you describe your current financial situation?_ 16% Living comfortably 31% Meet expenses with a little left over 30% Just Meet Expenses 24% Have trouble meeting expenses _Since Joe Biden has become President, would you say that you are financially…_ BETTER OFF (NET): 20% WORSE OFF (NET): 51% _Over the past month, which THREE of the following have been the biggest sources of financial stress for you, personally?_ Price increases: 78% Your income level: 49% Rent: 30% _Thinking about price increases, where are they having the biggest impact on your own financial situation right now?_ Food: 74% Everyday necessities like household supplies: 56% Gas: 55% Interestingly, 58% of respondents primarily blame “Large corporations taking advantage of inflation” for price increases and only 39% blame “Democratic policies” so it seems less an issue of “OMG Misinformation” and more “We know what’s wrong and Biden is weak on fixing it”. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/737 "2024-06-10T16:47:47Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > If you ask people a question they will give you an answer. That is kind how people work. This is up there as one of the worst arguments I’ve ever come across on this site. If you ask people if Godzilla is currently stomping round New York, will 49% of people say “yes”? Why is it so hard to acknowledge that misinformation is playing a significant role here? I mean on energy, not only is the US producing more oil than ever before, but it was recently pointed out [how much money](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/how-joe-biden-broke-opec-and-rewrote-the-rules-for-oil-trading/vi-BB1nOJkB) Biden has saved the American taxpayer by playing OPEC like a fiddle. Would you believe this though, if you got your news (directly or indirectly) from sources like this: > **[Consumers are taking a big hit from Biden's war on oil and gas: Stephen Moore...](https://www.foxnews.com/video/6354676908112)** > > Committee to Unleash Prosperity co-founder Stephen Moore weighs in on how Biden's energy policies impact the consumer and national security.  ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/738 "2024-06-10T16:49:54Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Thinking on this some … people who say today that "_Unemployment is at a 50-year record high!_” aren’t actually **UN** informed. What’s the actual poll question involved? All I can find is a Guardian article talking about the point but no links to the actual poll itself from The Guardian or Harris. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/739 "2024-06-10T16:56:37Z")
If you don’t think people answer poll question on topics they know nothing about, I don’t know what to tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/740 "2024-06-10T16:59:24Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > If you ask people if Godzilla is currently stomping round New York, will 49% of people say “yes”? In the poll linked above, only 2% answered “Don’t know well enough to say” when asked how the economy is doing. So you think that 98% of Americans are following economic news? Or that some quantity of Americans greater than 2% don’t have a clue about the macroeconomic reports but are answering based on their own gut feelings? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/741 "2024-06-10T17:02:41Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > What’s the actual poll question involved? All I can find is a Guardian article talking about the point but no links to the actual poll itself from The Guardian or Harris. You’re correct to point this out. The Harris poll was an exclusive exercise for _The Guardian_, and neither have seen fit to publicly release their poll questions or their data (including their margin of error). That in and of itself is problematic. Of interest **[from Harold Meyerson of Prospect.org](https://prospect.org/blogs-and-newsletters/tap/2024-05-23-half-of-democrats-think-were-in-recession/)**: > By now, those of us on the left and center-left have seen any number of polls that alarm or depress us, or both. **But a new [Harris Poll](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/22/poll-economy-recession-biden) published this week in _The Guardian_ sets a new OMG standard. To be sure, Harris is run by Mark Penn of No Labels, who is [notorious](https://www.semafor.com/article/12/19/2023/mark-penns-harvard-poll-is-driving-coverage-of-israel-but-should-it) for releasing push polls that make Biden look bad, and any poll of his should be taken with a large grain of salt.** That said, the results are not that far off [other polls](https://news.gallup.com/poll/609221/economic-mood-improves-inflation-vexing-americans.aspx) asking similar questions. There’s really no doubt that polling has been gamed in recent years, so you always at the very least want to take a peek behind the curtain. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/742 "2024-06-10T17:02:54Z")
Exactly. I would think the majority of people don’t follow the economic data, but do see viral memes, whether on facebook, X, tiktok or FOX that talk about misinformation like “Biden’s war on oil and gas”. As I say, people give very different answers talking about their county or state versus how well _America_ is doing. So the notion that people are basing their view on their everyday observations is the _opposite_ of what we’re seeing from these polls. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/743 "2024-06-10T17:07:43Z")
Perhaps, but Biden’s messaging, like Obama’s, has always been weak (other than when it’s election time). They assume that everyone is paying attention to the news and actually doing some reading that isn’t glurge from the extremes, when it fact most people only seem to have a vague notion of how things work. Trump and the other right wing pols, on the other hand, continually hammer on how bad things are without providing any proof. Repeat something often enough and it becomes fact; a tactic that has served demagogues for ages. On the off chance that Trump follows through with the debates, he’ll get his ass handed to him on the economy, but it may be too late. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736.md?page=36)