# Why can't Biden get more traction from the economy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 18, 2024, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736 "2024-05-18T13:12:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/744 "2024-06-10T17:13:11Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Another article I’m looking at contains this choice line, saying that inflation “only” made prices jump by 16% whereas national income rose by 18%: > > […] > > Really? Someone gets a theoretical 18% raise which is 90% consumed by notably higher prices and no one can noodle out why they’d both be “fine” economically AND think things were stupid? _Really?_ > > “Sigh”, indeed. Using your numbers, we’ll say that it used to be that I earned $10 and the price of a Combo Pack was $10. 100% of my money is consumed. I have $0 remainder. I now earn $11.80 and price of a Combo Pack is $11.60 since wages went up by 18% and prices went up by 16%. My bonus part was $1.80 and $1.60 of that extra is consumed (88.8% not 90%). I now end up with $0.20 remainder. I used to end up with $0.00 remainder. Would you rather have $0 or $0.20? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/745 "2024-06-10T17:13:11Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I mean on energy, not only is the US producing more oil than ever before, but it was recently pointed out [how much money](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/how-joe-biden-broke-opec-and-rewrote-the-rules-for-oil-trading/vi-BB1nOJkB) Biden has saved the American taxpayer by playing OPEC like a fiddle Okay, so the Biden administration did that. Does the general public actually know it? Around here, gas has been bouncing up and down in the 10-15% range, where the lowest I’ve seen is about $2.90 and the highest is about $3.30. That kind of swing is generally normal, even if it used to be (say 20 years ago) that the numbers were more like $1.50-$1.70. Why would the average person driving by on the way to work give any credit to Biden for what seems like normal volatility in the price of gas? Saying “It would have cost more otherwise” is not really how humans think. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/746 "2024-06-10T17:14:29Z")
Not uninformed. _Mis_informed. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/747 "2024-06-10T17:17:15Z")
The story from the linked FT/Mich Ross poll is pretty clear: A majority of people feel like they’re just getting by or aren’t getting by (and a distinct minority say they’re comfortable). Granted this is in opposition to the cited gospel in this thread that everyone is really peachy-happy about their finances. The main area of economic concern for people is prices, primarily food, household items and gas. People don’t directly blame Biden for this (the 39% blaming “Democratic policies” is pretty close to the Republicans polled so no mystery there) but, by a strong majority primarily blame companies for raising prices. However, they also feel that Biden is doing a poor job with the economy presumably because they expect him to act on these issues. You’d think that if “misinformation” (or really disinformation) was the primary culprit here, you wouldn’t see people mainly blaming greedy corporations and instead blaming Biden directly. None of this really has much to do with the unemployment rate or the Dow Jones or GDP or the price of wine in France. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Would you rather have $0 or $0.20? The actual question is, does the voter notice the 20¢ left over after noticing the higher price of the Combo pack? And does the voter think about how they got a raise but only get to pocket 20¢ of it due to combo pack pricing. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/748 "2024-06-10T17:22:42Z")
The question for me is whether the average voter remembers the Trade War, tariffs, and the loss of all the cheap products that Trump cost us? > **[Tracking the Economic Impact of Tariffs](https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/tariffs-trump-trade-war/)** > > The Trump administration imposed nearly $80 billion worth of new taxes on Americans by levying tariffs on thousands of products, amounting to one of the largest tax increases in decades. WTH does any of this have to do with Biden, if it’s what MAGA voted for? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/749 "2024-06-10T17:22:51Z")
The problem is that nobody is going to feel that 20 cents. What do you do with 20 cents? Stick it in a change jar until you go to the bank (if you have one and they have a machine) or pay 10% of what you put in to Coinstar. It was what, 13 or 14 years ago when the FICA tax was temporarily cut by something like two percent as a form of stimulus. The argument was that it would be far more stimulative because it was naturally more progressive (the income cap, after all) and would get spent right away because it wasn’t really that much more per paycheck, so people were unlikely to save it either in cash or by adjusting their 401k deduction. That it was preferable to a big one time payment for the purposes of stimulus because a big check would either get saved, used to pay debt, or used on a single big ticket item. So now the argument is that people are somehow going to notice this two percent increase in their pay over inflation (if they are in the population who actually got that) when they weren’t expected to notice getting two percent during the Great Recession. That doesn’t seem reasonable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/750 "2024-06-10T17:24:14Z")
There is a survey of Americans that 73% think the capital of Canada is Toronto. Alaska got 3% of the vote. Ottawa ~.2% Think there is a misinformation campaign going on? The far right certainly pushes their narrative, but the majority people are just not interested or knowledgeable on a lot of topics. I think these results show more ignorance then malice. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/751 "2024-06-10T17:28:30Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Okay, so the Biden administration [saved $billions by playing OPEC]. Does the general public actually know it? No, they “know” that Biden has a “war on oil” and the reason for higher gas prices is because he “stopped” keystone. They also know that we were “energy independent” under Trump, and aren’t any more. Which part of their real world, lived experience told them all these false facts? ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/752 "2024-06-10T17:30:48Z")
No most people don’t “know” any of this stuff. They know what gas prices are. Most people really don’t know or care about world politics all that much. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/753 "2024-06-10T17:39:55Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The question for me is whether the average voter remembers the Trade War, tariffs, and the loss of all the cheap products that Trump cost us? Any recent news is about Biden keeping/raising tariffs on Chinese products so there probably isn’t much traction there even among people who are aware of tariffs on Chinese goods. Oh, and the occasional story about how new regulations could mean no more cheap shit from Shein and Temu > [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > No most people don’t “know” any of this stuff. They know what gas prices are. Most people really don’t know or care about world politics all that much. This. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/754 "2024-06-10T17:47:49Z")
Based on this ongoing discussion, which is mostly circling at this point, it seems to me that there are five factors; for any particular American who doesn’t believe that the economy is doing well, at least one of these are in play. 1. Many (probably most) Americans don’t pay much attention to the news, and thus, even if the President does talk about what’s happening with the economy, they never hear it. 2. Most Americans don’t pay close attention to employment and economic figures, and even if they hear about them in the news (see #1), they don’t really understand what would be a “good number.” 3. Many Americans feel, at a micro, personal level, that, due to inflation (and, possibly, their own wages not keeping up with it), they, personally, are not in as good of shape, economically, as they were. 4. Related to #3, on the absolute level, many people feel that, because prices are higher now, in the absolute, things are “worse.” Unless prices somehow went down (which, as we’ve discussed, would likely be a sign of a weak economy), it’d be difficult to dissuade them from this. 5. Americans who get most of their news from conservative news sources are being actively fed disinformation about the economy. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/755 "2024-06-10T17:50:50Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Any recent news is about Biden keeping/raising tariffs on Chinese products so there probably isn’t much traction there even among people who are aware of tariffs on Chinese goods. If you want to eat that, then go for it. It’s like with Israel. You can either tell people, “Yeah, Biden is largely going the wrong direction.” Or you can say, “You’re fucked with **both** candidates on that one. Do you want genocide in Palestine and higher prices under the guy who will quit in 4 years and give us more new options, or genocide in Palestine and higher prices under the guy who will swear up and down that everyone’s cheating and he has to stay on as president for life to make sure that everyone’s honest for the rest of time? With option 2, neither of those problems ever ends. With option 1, it does.” You can try to play the partisan and screw yourself or just be realistic and honest and you’ll do a lot better at selling the candidate that you’re backing. In the end, you don’t need a positive message, you just need the better of all bad options. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/756 "2024-06-10T17:52:32Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If you want to eat that, then go for it. Eat what? None of this has to do with my own feelings on Biden, we’re talking about voter perceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/757 "2024-06-10T17:53:47Z")
Voter perception comes from what people tell them. If you come across as a partisan who is out of touch with things, they’re going to ignore you. If you give them the straight shit, you’ll convert them. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/758 "2024-06-10T17:57:46Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > No most people don’t “know” any of this stuff. They know what gas prices are. I already cited FOX, and then there’s all the [memes](https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-895299166310) about this stuff, then there’s the fact that even in _this thread_ misinformation about Keystone [was given](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/520) as the reason for high gas prices. So I’ll ask again: why is it so hard to acknowledge that misinformation is a big part of this? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/759 "2024-06-10T18:34:19Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > So I’ll ask again: why is it so hard to acknowledge that misinformation is a big part of this? I can answer that one. If one of the main enemies is named sources of deliberate misinformation then you have actual targets to aim at, with the hope that said deliberate misinformation can be somewhat hindered. If on the other hand you ignore these propaganda machines and push the idea that this misinformation is just popping into people’s heads spontaneously, then you have no actual targets to aim at and maybe the left will just give up in dispair. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/760 "2024-06-10T18:44:08Z")
Most people don’t watch fox or take memes all that seriously. No one is saying that misinformation isn’t a thing. I’m just amazed on a board dedicated to fighting ignorance, so many people have trouble with he concept that most people are just generally ignorant about these issues. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/761 "2024-06-10T18:44:53Z")
Just a weird comment on heavily liberal board in which nearly everyone wants Biden to win. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/762 "2024-06-10T18:48:02Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Most people don’t watch fox or take memes all that seriously. Are you actually denying that Fox News is the highest rated cable news source?? By the way, putting “Fox” in lower case to make it seem insignificant? 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/763 "2024-06-10T18:50:03Z")
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