# Why can't Biden get more traction from the economy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 18, 2024, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736 "2024-05-18T13:12:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/807 "2024-06-14T16:07:08Z")
Ah I missed it. So OK, this is a poll of 1,000 people saying that they are worse off. Earlier, when presented with a Pew Research poll of 5,000 people saying they were better off, your response was "no one gives a shit about your poll”. What changed? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/808 "2024-06-14T16:09:55Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > your response was "no one gives a shit about your poll” No it wasn’t. I gave multiple reasons that could help explain a discrepancy. I’ve linked to articles by outlets like Vox and the EPI explaining the discrepancy. It would be nice if you’d actually read stuff and respond to _that_ instead of just pouting about it. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/811 "2024-06-14T16:25:54Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1002881/6): > > 62% of Biden supporters would rather him be replaced with another nominee. Dude, come on. Are you really not knowing that Biden is this unpopular or are you fooling with me? Very good. Further corroboration is required. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/813 "2024-06-14T16:28:47Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1002881/5): > > You would have to suppose that an increasing proportion of left-leaning voters are getting siloed into right-wing information bubbles. No I would not have to suppose that, as it’s the opposite of what I posted. The two silos have become distinctly separate, with factual information being reported (for the most part) in the left bubble, and outright lies, bullshit and increasingly insane conspiracy theories being reported in the right bubble. There is no mixing. > I know people who have completely given up on the news, because they don’t trust the media anymore and feel helpless when bombarded with story after story about bad things. So they are tuning it out and focusing on other things. Those “other things” being nutty posts from facebook friends and “suggested sites” that are all full of disinformation. That’s my point. They have been segregated out of the factual news streams, and are now in the disinformation social medial bubble of bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/814 "2024-06-14T16:30:14Z")
Actually, looking at that Pew Research graphic again: The majority of Biden supporters in the poll wanted _both_ candidates replaced as a specific condition. Only 2% wanted to replace Biden and choose someone else to run against Trump. So, I can DQ that cite, though it was interesting. That _is_ something I can agree with – that a lot of people do want both parties to present “better candidates”. That, IMHO, is not the same thing as “unhappy with Biden’s candidacy”. Others’ mileage may vary. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/815 "2024-06-14T16:47:08Z")
Excellent chance ChuckTaylor is also SyncoSmalls. Please flag any similar trolling posts in this thread if they pop up. Both have been cornfielded. Chucky was a sleeper sock. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/816 "2024-06-14T20:55:58Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > So I’m guessing you can’t link to examples of popular media reporting false figures about unemployment and that we’re in a recession since you keep insisting that this is where people get this information? Links are then provided… > [@JohnT](#): > > This data, especially population data, has been collected by the government since 1800, and there are plenty of learned estimates in the literature re: job growth by year. To say there is no data prior to 1939 is disingenuous at best, a lie at worse. > [@JohnT](#): > > Here’s a NYT economics reporter telling an actual economist that the data doesn’t matter, especially for the youth who have had bad vibes since 2019: > [@JohnT](#): > > But, no, the NYT accepts Signet’s framing and cannot be assed-bothered to do the sort of research it takes to make a Sunday afternoon post on some random message board to see if the company is just covering their asses, or **honestly reporting on actual trends**. ( **Emphasis** mine, JohnT) Crickets. Then, in response to someone else… > [@Jophiel](#): > > But, hey, once the NYT did a stupid fact check about how we don’t have unemployment numbers from 1804. I’m sure that’s totally what drove people’s perceptions! I let this slide because, frankly, it wasn’t worth the effort. But, well… > [@Jophiel](#): > > It would be nice if you’d actually read stuff and respond to _that_ instead of just pouting about it. I know, right?!?!? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/817 "2024-06-14T21:00:15Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > > [@Mijin](#): > > > > your response was "no one gives a shit about your poll” > > No it wasn’t. I quoted [your exact words](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/88). So you can say you’ve said other things _in addition_, and sure, we’ve all said a lot of things in this thread. But don’t try to imply I am misquoting you. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/818 "2024-06-14T21:05:11Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1002881/6): > > > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1002881/6): > > > > 62% of Biden supporters would rather him be replaced with another nominee. Dude, come on. Are you really not knowing that Biden is this unpopular or are you fooling with me? > > Very good. Further corroboration is required. It’s a different point to the thread topic. I mean, I would consider myself among those who would prefer a different candidate; he looks frail and I would prefer someone that could clap back more quickly and forcefully. I’m nervous about every interview. But I _also_ think he’s been objectively an incredible president by just about every metric, while Republicans have become so obstructionist that they block their own bills. And that the American economy is the envy of the world right now. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/819 "2024-06-14T21:38:55Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I quoted [your exact words](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/88). Congratulations on finding a job as a cherry picker in this economy? > [@Mijin](#): > > But don’t try to imply I am misquoting you. You asked “what changed?” knowing full well that you were selectively quoting and that I wrote a ton of other stuff but now you want to get petulant? Ok then. In any event, I’d addressed your precious gospel poll multiple times while you try to deflect anything else as “not enough people (only a thousand!)” or “too long ago” or anything else to avoid actually talking about polls that don’t fit your narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/820 "2024-06-14T22:10:36Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Crickets Right. Because none of those were what I asked Mijin for: actual false figures about unemployment and that we’re in a recession. Unless we’ve gone from “disinformation” (i.e. actual lies) to “I disagree with this guy’s opinion and that jeweler’s sales of engagement rings (which was backed by other slowing in the wedding industry sector for that period) don’t match _overall_ jewelry sales so that’s misinformation” (Amusingly, the engagement ring factoid wasn’t even directly “the economy sucks” but rather about knock-on effects of the Covid lockdown on meeting potential partners) I ignored them out of politeness. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/821 "2024-06-14T22:30:09Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Because none of those were what I asked Mijin for: actual false figures about unemployment and that we’re in a recession. Posts #591-601 above are true-enough Scotsmen. Nakedly-false figures about unemployment are not necessary to sell the idea that “_unemployment is bad!_”. Similarly for “_we’re in a recession!_” – bagging on “Biden’s economy” is essentially an “_I’m not touching you!_” game with falsehood. Misleading without lying is old hat for many outfits. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/822 "2024-06-14T22:39:46Z")
Sure and getting ever more fast and loose with what counts as the misinformation being talked about. Which is why that whole spur of conversation started with me trying to pin Mijin down on what “misinformation” actually meant and led to his (temporarily) rage quitting the thread rather than ever giving a real answer. If people are going to keep insisting it’s the primary driver of poor polling performance, we should be able to define it at least, right? One of JohnT’s examples is literally just a person saying that young people weren’t cheering “soft cpi prints”. That’s misinformation? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/823 "2024-06-14T22:53:55Z")
I’m honestly at a loss about what you’re talking about. The issue now is supposed to be about _defining_ misinformation? What? And you’re saying I haven’t given examples of misinformation, I’ve given several. If I post another one now, will you concede any point? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/824 "2024-06-14T22:55:27Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > If I post another one now, will you concede any point? No, because I’m looking for what you’re actually considering misinformation, not just a scattered pile of stories you don’t like. So far, it seems like “Stories and reports, even if factually accurate, that I don’t think portray the economy in a glowing light”. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/825 "2024-06-14T23:05:30Z")
Does it seem like that? Is “unemployment is at record highs” factually accurate? Is blaming Biden for the global post-pandemic inflation spike? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/826 "2024-06-14T23:12:26Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Does it seem like that? Is “unemployment is at record highs” factually accurate? Exactly. Who is saying that “Unemployment is at record highs”? Not the poll result (which I’m a little skeptical of regardless since they won’t share the actual question), who are the people feeding this false fact to the masses for them to repeat in a poll since I’m told over and over that misinformation is to blame for it? It’s a long road from “Q1 engagement ring sales were down in 2023” and “Young people aren’t excited about soft cpi numbers” to “We have history-making unemployment”. But we can agree that, if someone is saying “Unemployment is at a record high” then that’s disinformation, right? So it that what’s driving the narrative? Is someone actually getting in the media and saying this besides Facebook memes from AmericaFirstPatriotTrumpLovers? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/827 "2024-06-15T00:39:49Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I’m honestly at a loss about what you’re talking about. > The issue now is supposed to be about _defining_ misinformation? What? > > And you’re saying I haven’t given examples of misinformation, I’ve given several. > If I post another one now, will you concede any point? I think you misunderstand Jophiel’s self appointed role in this thread. It’s not to provide constructive observations and solutions. it’s to criticize others observations, explain why their proposed solutions won’t work and demand that they come up with better ones. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/828 "2024-06-21T13:45:47Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I’m honestly at a loss about what you’re talking about. > The issue now is supposed to be about _defining_ misinformation? What? > > And you’re saying I haven’t given examples of misinformation, I’ve given several. > If I post another one now, will you concede any point? So, a voice that I respect has spoken about the economy vs politics question in this thread. His over-arching theme is “tell the truth”. > **[Why Conceding To Lies About The Economy Is A Big Mistake](https://www.offmessage.net/p/conceding-to-lies-economy-mistake)** > > It's not just about voter sentiment ahead of the election, it's about what kind of party we want Democrats to be in a post-Trump future. My favorite lines here: _Other survey data reliably shows that [Republican economic sentiment is much, much more sensitive to partisan control of the White House than Democratic sentiment](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-news-poll-analysis-americans-rate-economy-partisan-lens/). Republican voters are trained by their media, or acculturated by their communities, to dissemble about their economic sentiments depending on who’s president—or, more generously, to feel so invested in who holds power in America that they lose touch with reality._ _Every poll like this one from Monmouth will sweep in voters whose responses are tethered to facts, and others, mostly Republicans, whose responses are shaped by partisanship and tribalism. What we have here is evidence that Biden is fighting the issue to a draw despite that handicap. If people really just voted their pocketbooks, Biden would be winning handily. If Trump were to become president tomorrow, Republicans would experience catharsis, and economic sentiment would shoot above the waterline._ _Political professionals should be able to see that coming miles away: Those same tribal poll responders will become big fans of the economy if Trump wins the election. They will outnumber their tribal opposites in the Democratic Party, and sentiment will invert before policy has changed at all._ _Which means we know Biden doesn’t have a major economy problem—he has a Republican shit-talking problem._ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/829 "2024-06-21T13:50:53Z")
If only someone had mentioned that point earlier in this thread… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736.md?page=40)