# Why can't Biden get more traction from the economy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 18, 2024, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736 "2024-05-18T13:12:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/158 "2024-05-19T23:52:30Z")
Those numbers are approximate, not meant to be precise. Second, not all of the added income is allocated towards savings. Some of it is going to necessities (insurance costs at the new job are $8k more than at my old job), I’ve increased my 401k% contribution, I’ve been paying some out-of-pocket medical expenses, groceries, fuel, and other items have increased in cost, and yes, we have also added some discretionary spending. At any rate, I didn’t mean to imply that the raise only meant a $10k increase in income. Just that adding $10k/yr to our down payment savings with an added 10s of thousands of dollars income to consider for a mortgage has barely been enough to keep pace with the housing market here. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/159 "2024-05-20T00:25:12Z")
> [@Boudicca90](#): > > I have doubts this is true given your attitudes throughout the thread, but okay sure. But no, our society has definitely become more and more unequal over time, and income inequality shows no sign of reversing course. I linked in an earlier post that there’s been some wage compression during the last 4 years, where there have been stronger gains at the bottom than at the top. So, yes there was a long-term increase in inequality. But we’ve actually taken a small bite out of that in recent years. It’s a start. More work to do in that regard. I don’t know what you mean with the “attitudes throughout the thread” comment, but whatever. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/160 "2024-05-20T00:31:10Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > And presumably such people have always felt downbeat about the economy. > > Between “Biden 2024: Just Be Happy You’re Not On Fucking Food Stamps” and “Biden/Harris: So What? There’s Always Been Poor People”, I’m going to run out of space on my car’s bumper with all this great economic messaging. If that’s what you think I’ve been saying, then you really need to go back and re-read this thread. Geez, talking to you is like talking to a MAGA-head. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/161 "2024-05-20T00:46:53Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Those numbers are approximate, not meant to be precise. > > Second, not all of the added income is allocated towards savings. Some of it is going to necessities (insurance costs at the new job are $8k more than at my old job), I’ve increased my 401k% contribution, I’ve been paying some out-of-pocket medical expenses, groceries, fuel, and other items have increased in cost, and yes, we have also added some discretionary spending. > > At any rate, I didn’t mean to imply that the raise only meant a $10k increase in income. Just that adding $10k/yr to our down payment savings with an added 10s of thousands of dollars income to consider for a mortgage has barely been enough to keep pace with the housing market here. You appear to me to be an example of someone doing well in the economy. You’re putting aside money in 401K. You have health insurance. You’re saving money, etc. Housing however is a sore spot. And that’s unfortunately due to the work-from-home increase shifting patterns of where people live, and driving up housing values, plus maybe some NIMBY’ism in some areas. What state do you live in? I hope you’re able to save up for the house you want. I’ve done well myself, and am starting to consider buying another house in the next few years. I’m not looking forward to that. I do own a house, and should be able to sell for more than I paid, but what type of house will I be able to afford when I move? Depends on where I move. Some areas are pricier than others. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/162 "2024-05-20T00:53:51Z")
**Moderating** : Careful with the personal insults. Not allowed outside the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/163 "2024-05-20T01:07:21Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > If that’s what you think I’ve been saying, then you really need to go back and re-read this thread Oh, I’ve been reading the thread. It’s a weird collection of insisting that no one is actually unhappy and responding to any reasons or examples of someone being unhappy by hand-waving them away as not understanding how happy they actually are. Then declaring that any bad polling is purely the result for the Right Wing Brainwashing Cabal because look at these macro numbers! 65%! Not that Biden’s campaign is doing themselves any favors in the economic messaging department but I’m certainly glad no one from this thread is on the re-election team. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/164 "2024-05-20T01:13:55Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Oh, I’ve been reading the thread. It’s a weird collection of insisting that no one is actually unhappy and responding to any reasons or examples of someone being unhappy by hand-waving them away as not understanding how happy they actually are. Then declaring that any bad polling is purely the result for the Right Wing Brainwashing Cabal because look at these macro numbers! 65% Where did anyone say that no one is unhappy or that people don’t understand how happy they are? I don’t see it. I started this thread because people **are** unhappy with the economy, literally the opposite of what you’re talking about. Also, the 65% number is from actual surveys…ya know…of people’s opinions. You’re reading a different thread than I am. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/165 "2024-05-20T01:19:10Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > I started this thread because people **are** unhappy with the economy, literally the opposite of what you’re talking about. _Legitimately_ unhappy. As in unhappy because of their actual finances. Each time it comes up it’s “No, no, no… it’s, uh, the MAGA-sphere! FOX News! Misinformation campaigns!” as though no one can actually look at their paycheck and budget and feel like this isn’t going as promised and feel let down by the economy. > [@survinga](#): > > Also, the 65% number is from actual surveys…ya know…of people’s opinions. Sure. And people have demonstrated a shallow depth of understanding about how someone could possibly say “Things are fine for me” and still feel down on the economy without leaning into brainwashing. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/166 "2024-05-20T01:31:48Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Each time it comes up it’s “No, no, no… it’s, uh, the MAGA-sphere! FOX News! Misinformation campaigns!” as though no one can actually look at their paycheck and budget and feel like this isn’t going as promised and feel let down by the economy. OK, so you’re backing off your previous points in the previous post, which were verifiably untrue. As for the MAGA-sphere, it is a legitimate thing, and it’s why basically 40% of this country votes like they’re in a cult. This is why Republicans are incredibly partisan even in answering questions about crime and the economy. You might not like that, and I can’t make you admit that it’s real. But it’s been proven repeatedly in polling & surveys, and is basically common knowledge. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Sure. And people have demonstrated a shallow depth of understanding about how someone could possibly say “Things are fine for me” and still feel down on the economy without leaning into brainwashing. No, I think there are multiple reasons for people to hold those views. Brainwashing from MAGA-sphere is one of them. But there are others, too, which include people feeling they’ve earned their pay increases but feel like it’s unfair that money was taken from them in the form of higher grocery prices. Again, I think you and I aren’t reading the same thread. I’m done interacting with you on this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/167 "2024-05-20T02:03:16Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > But there are others, too, which include people feeling they’ve earned their pay increases but feel like it’s unfair that money was taken from them in the form of higher grocery prices. Golf clap on finally admitting to what I’ve been saying throughout the entire thread and not just saying “But 65%!!!” ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/168 "2024-05-20T02:06:53Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Golf clap on finally admitting to what I’ve been saying throughout the entire thread and not just saying “But 65%!!!” So, that proves you didn’t read post #122…like I said earlier, we’re not reading the same thread, and you proved it yet again… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/169 "2024-05-20T02:09:45Z")
Closed on May 20, 2024, 2:09am UTC ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/170 "2024-05-20T02:11:27Z")
**Moderating** : Time out in the thread. I think the back and forth for @survinga & @Jophiel has moved beyond attack the post and into attack the poster. Please get back to topical posts and less attacking each other. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/171 "2024-05-20T02:28:20Z")
Opened on May 20, 2024, 2:28am UTC This topic was automatically opened after 18 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/172 "2024-05-20T02:52:20Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > So, that proves you didn’t read post #122 Actually, I don’t know if I did or not. Looking at it, it came at a time when I had three or four replies on the thread at once so I may have glanced over it (I notice I didn’t reply to it) I don’t think it really changes the overall tone of the thread at all and most of the thread is rather antagonistic to the idea that anyone could be independently coming to the conclusion that the economy isn’t performing for them. To the crux of the OP, I think it’s pretty obvious why a majority of voters would rate the economy poorly including a substantial number of Democrats who presumably aren’t hanging out in MAGA Facebook groups. And why the “65%” disparity isn’t really any sort of riddle: - Feels that they’re doing “okay” but significantly worse then they should be doing for their income - Feels that they’re doing okay but is aware of rising food prices, inflation, rent/mortgage costs, interest rates, etc as a function of media reporting and places those items at a higher priority than things like the stock market or overall consumer spending - Feels they’re doing okay but has experience with other people who are struggling - Isn’t actually doing okay but picks the poll option because Americans have been conditioned to equate household financial distress with personal failing So on and so forth. The drive to blame it mostly on right-wing disinformation feels like whistling past the graveyard and is itself silly since the response is the same anyway: If people came to their own conclusions that kitchen table finances are bad, you need to address that directly. If they came to that conclusion because a MAGA podcast told them, you still need to address it directly because you’re not going to go house to house and explain to each person “No, actually you’re really doing just ducky”. The Biden re-election campaign needs to find a way to address these kitchen table finances and how the administration will help people who feel like they’re struggling, and saying “No way, check out these macro-economic indicators” ain’t gonna do it. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/173 "2024-05-20T02:58:35Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > 20 years ago something like 90 million people were on “food stamps”. > **[What the data says about food stamps in the U.S.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/19/what-the-data-says-about-food-stamps-in-the-u-s/)** > > The food stamp program is one of the larger federal social welfare initiatives, and in its current form has been around for nearly six decades. According to the second graph in the article, since 1980 there have never been as many as 50 million people in Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), or “food stamps” as many call it. > [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Unions were a hugely powerful political force. One of the candidates wants to bring that era back. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/174 "2024-05-20T03:06:45Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > If people came to their own conclusions that kitchen table finances are bad, you need to address that directly. If they came to that conclusion because a MAGA podcast told them, you still need to address it directly because you’re not going to go house to house and explain to each person “No, actually you’re really doing just ducky”. The Biden re-election campaign needs to find a way to address these kitchen table finances and how the administration will help people who feel like they’re struggling, and saying “No way, check out these macro-economic indicators” ain’t gonna do it. So, I think it will be a combination of both. I do think Biden needs to point out his own accomplishments, and he has to talk about what he will do to address “unfinished business”, to address concerns people have about either their own situation or the nation’s situation. My first post showed a litany of areas where the economy is very strong, in some ways stronger than ever. I don’t think he should pretend that stuff didn’t happen, because it will make him look weak. But yes, if someone has anecdotal based concerns, he needs to be empathetic, and also talk about things he still wants to do to help them out. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/175 "2024-05-20T03:07:50Z")
Well, it’s only FIFTY MILLION, everything is groovy, then. Yeah, it’s been 20 years, what figure I was probably referencing, something like 90 million people are on some form of “government assistance”. Does that sound reasonable? 50 million on “food stamps” - and another 40 million on various other programs. Housing assistance? WIC? Etc. I’m sure that is at least in the ballpark. Never mind the increasing calls for “universal basic income” aka “Free Shit”. Dependence on government - for the very fiber of their being. These are not good trends is my point. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/176 "2024-05-20T03:13:09Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Yeah, it’s been 20 years, what figure I was probably referencing, something like 90 million people are on some form of government assistance. Does that sound reasonable? 50 million on “food stamps” - and another 40 million on various other programs. Housing assistance? WIC? Etc. We have a pretty large safety net in this country. It’s not super-efficient. But it’s bigger than people think. There was a spike in government transfer payments during the pandemic, and it’s been coming down since then, as expected, as the economy has recovered… > **[Federal government current transfer payments/Gross Domestic Product | FRED |...](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1bE47)** > > Graph and download economic data for Federal government current transfer payments/Gross Domestic Product from Q1 1947 to Q1 2024 about transfers, payments, government, GDP, USA, and federal. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736/177 "2024-05-20T03:14:06Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > if someone has anecdotal based concerns People keep using “anecdotal” in this thread to describe these things but, for the people with these concerns, it’s not “anecdote” – it’s personal experience. Intentionally or not, it sounds dismissive to call it anecdote (even if the term is technically correct) and this probably isn’t the best place for it. If someone says they heard of a guy who used his SNAP card to buy lobster, etc then it’s fair to say that food assistance policy shouldn’t be based on those anecdotes versus the overall data. But if a voter says they’re personally experiencing some level of hardship and it gets dismissed as anecdote, you’re not going to persuade very many voters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-biden-get-more-traction-from-the-economy/1001736.md?page=9)