# Why can't DC get it right **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 16, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114 "2016-09-16T22:40:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/21 "2016-09-17T12:45:23Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > The DC execs can’t hear your complaints over all that money. No, they can’t hear our complaints because they don’t post on SDMB. Otherwise, your comments about the amount of money they’re making are entirely irrelevant–this is not a discussion of why they’re not making a profit, it’s a question of why folks here don’t like their movies. It’s like a thread on the low quality of McDonald’s Hamburgers, and you respond by telling us how many burgers they sold. Both accurate and irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/22 "2016-09-17T14:22:40Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Marvel has actually been moving to a darker tone in a lot of their franchise. Tony Stark in Civil War was both depressed and depressing, and Daredevil and Jessica Jones are dark, too. It works for Marvel because they _moved_ to a darker tone. They have an emotional range. Snyder hasn’t figured out that unrelenting dark and gritty is just as bland as unrelenting happiness and light. The dark moments in a movie that’s half dark and half light feel a lot darker than the darkest moments in a movie that’s all dark. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/23 "2016-09-17T15:12:22Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > DC Warner is a bit like that, but, on the whole, they’ve given us the Nolan Batman trilogy which pretty much compensates a thousand Green Lanterns, and their less well reviewed movies are still hugely successful. One good movie, one great movie, and one awful movie don’t compensate for other unpleasant films. > [@](#): > > Sure, Snyder is all about the action and seems to consider characters showing emotions a chore to go through, but if you can accept his Superman movies for what they are, instead of what you want it to be, it’s an enjoyable two hour ride. His movies are miserable. And he couldn’t properly direct action if the fate of all DC depended on it. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/24 "2016-09-17T15:19:00Z")
Well, I liked Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad but Man of Steel was awful and I agree the DC movies are not done as well as they can be. There are a couple of reasons: 1. This recent go around of movies was birthed because WB saw dollar signs and said “I want some of that sweet, Sweet Marvel Money”. You are already two steps behind when that is the motivation. 2. The movies to date were all guided by the same creative voice (i.e Zack Snyder). Marvel was smart enough to make their movies feel different from each other. DC does seem to be learning this slowly though. 3. The Powers that Be seem to be running from the characters instead of embracing them. Superman is supposed to be a little bit square. It’s okay to make him that way. Also DC’s settings are fictional unlike Marvel. Instead of taking advantage of this and showing us amazing images of Cities that Never Were, they make them just look like Generic City Number 5. It feels like a waste of potential. 4. What Marvel did is very hard to do. It’s easy to point to success in hindsight but there are a thousand ways this could have all gone to crap. Iron Man could have tanked, killing everything before it started. Avengers was almost an impossible movie to do well an they got one of the only people who could do it and he knocked it out of the park. And even Marvel is not perfect. The Thor movies are just okay. Avengers 2 was muddled and much less successful creatively than the first one. Civil War felt a little tired to me. It is easy to have it all come crashing down. All that said, DC is not completely lost and it feels like they are improving. Wonder Woman looks good and I enjoyed the little of Justice League we have seen. Plus it feels like they are trying to fix what was wrong with their version of Superman. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/25 "2016-09-17T20:54:51Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > No, they can’t hear our complaints because they don’t post on SDMB. Otherwise, your comments about the amount of money they’re making are entirely irrelevant–this is not a discussion of why they’re not making a profit, it’s a question of why folks here don’t like their movies. > > It’s like a thread on the low quality of McDonald’s Hamburgers, and you respond by telling us how many burgers they sold. Both accurate and irrelevant. Oh its a thread about the folks HERE? That’s not what i got out of the OP. He said why does it get critical and fan rejection. And for a film that was rejected by fans it made a SHIT TON of money. Hence my point about its income. Maybe it wasn’t as widely rejected by the fans as the OP thinks. The “fans” are already shitting on Justice League. So why is it going to make a lot of money? Who are these miserable bastards throwing their money away? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/26 "2016-09-17T21:18:42Z")
Yes yes, thank you for pointing it out. But this IS a thread for the people here, because we’re the people here discussing it. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/27 "2016-09-17T22:19:19Z")
This narrative that DC movies are failing doesn’t have much connection to reality. They haven’t been critical darlings and they don’t make Avengers money. But they make bazillions of dollars and, outside of internet fandom, most people enjoy them just fine. Do I think they’re as well-executed as they could be? Nope. But they’re hardly failing. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/28 "2016-09-17T22:51:39Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Uhhhhhh…Batman V Superman is the fifth raking movie of the year with a draw of 873 million. > > Suicide Squad has made 708 million. > > The DC execs can’t hear your complaints over all that money. And this is all box office. They will make more bank on DVDS. > > Justice League WILL make bank. > Now…critically?? As long as the they make craptons of money they don’t care. They will just write it off as crybaby fanboys. > > Edit: “Marvel wants to make movies. DC wants to make money.” Or…what that guy said. This. DC only looks like a failure because they are only raking in slightly below Marvel money, which is pretty ridiculous. It’s the same phenomenon that we saw with the spiderman films, they were actually more successful than most Marvel movies and people still thought they were bombs for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/29 "2016-09-19T19:19:24Z")
The OP said nothing about box office. The question is why “DC/Warner Brothers movies just seem to always be met with **critical and fan rejection**.” ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/30 "2016-09-19T19:25:35Z")
My opinion is that Warner sees the properties as simply names and costumes. Marvel realizes that they include several decades of \*\*stories \*\*as well, and works to adapt them to the movie medium, rather than throwing them out and going off in whatever direction. _Captain America_ and _Iron Man_ were reasonable modernized updates of the origin stories that fans know so well. _Man of Steel_ may have been a decent alien invasion epic, but it wasn’t a Superman story. (I still haven’t seen _Batman v. Superman_, and don’t plan to until it comes to basic cable – or until my public library gets the DVD. Bad enough I spent money on tickets for _Man of Steel_. Not repeating that mistake.) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/31 "2016-09-19T19:32:00Z")
I admit that I don’t read Superman comics, but isn’t it pretty much “No matter what, evil guys just can’t get anything over on SuperMarySue!” ? Doesn’t seem like that makes for compelling movies. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/32 "2016-09-19T19:39:50Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > _Man of Steel_ may have been a decent alien invasion epic, but it wasn’t a Superman story. That’s exactly what I liked about it. I much prefer watching a genre movie featuring superheroes than a ‘superhero movie.’ Dark Knight was a great crime movie, for example. I liked that it was DC’s initial approach to their universe, even if they didn’t nail the execution. I’d so much prefer if they kept going in that direction and worked on getting it right. They’ve apparently decided on going the ‘more like Marvel’ route, though, in hopes that their box office is more like theirs too. A lot of people happy to see quippy Batman in that Justice League trailer. I am not among them. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/33 "2016-09-19T19:39:57Z")
Hope. Marvel sells movies that have hope in them. From the color palate to the humor to the plot. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/34 "2016-09-19T19:46:12Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Yeah, they are laughing all the way to the bank… BUT…even they realize that without a real LOVE they are just making movies and not building empires. They still can’t hear you over the sound of all the money. DC is later to the “huge expanded universe” party but in terms of raking in lots of coin it’s working just fine. People are excited to see “Wonder Woman” and it will make jillions, as will Justice League and whatever comes after that. And let’s be honest, there is an element of 1. Luck. Marvel just happened to hit it out of the park with a few more movies than DC did. But **“The Dark Knight” is better than any Marvel movie** , so clearly DC is capable of producing an excellent movie. DC CAN make a great movie given that “The Dark Knight” exists, and “Batman Begins” was pretty good, too. You’re looking at a relatively small sample of films; the fact DC blew it with SvB and Suicide Squad proves little. For all we know Justice League will be great. IT’s hard to predict these things, even knowing who the creative team is. 1. Expectations. The movies are sort of pre-judged and the opinions are in before they’re watched; “Captain America: Civil War” was a mess, but people decided well in advance they were going to like it. Most Marvel movies actually haven’t been THAT great. Some have been terrific, for sure; many have not, and my prediction is the overall quality will decline as they keep pumping them out. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/35 "2016-09-19T19:50:10Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > I think part of it is that DC characters are more iconic. No one cared that Marvel messed up the Hulk, and if they’d messed up Iron Man, no one would have cared much either. But if you don’t get Superman and Batman right, it’s harder to recover from. Two of the Marvel characters are iconic. The rest? Nowhere near as much even in the Anglosphere, and “who?” outside of it. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/36 "2016-09-19T19:55:27Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I admit that I don’t read Superman comics, but isn’t it pretty much “No matter what, evil guys just can’t get anything over on SuperMarySue!” ? > > Doesn’t seem like that makes for compelling movies. Nah, nothing like that. Superman can be in tons of interesting stories; it’s just that he’s a harder character to do well and Hollywood pushes against what’s hard to do. I think on the Marvel side The Hulk is similar (in the sense that he is harder to write a movie about, not in character) thus we have yet to see a fully creatively successful Hulk solo movie. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/37 "2016-09-19T20:26:07Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I admit that I don’t read Superman comics, but isn’t it pretty much “No matter what, evil guys just can’t get anything over on SuperMarySue!” ? > > Doesn’t seem like that makes for compelling movies. Superman has been in continuous publication for over eighty years, and has been massively successful in literally every form of mass media in existence. And yet, people still have this weird idea that it’s not possible to tell interesting stories about the guy. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/38 "2016-09-19T20:33:01Z")
It isn’t that it’s hard to tell interesting stories about Superman. It’s that it’s difficult to tell intelligent stories about Superman. Too often, writers have to “forget” one or more of his powers before the story contains any meaningful drama. Also, “Superman Marries Lori Lemaris” and “Superman Kills Batman” and “Jimmy Olsen Gets Superman’s Powers” and guff of that nature. (John Byrne’s reboot of Superman was the best thing ever to happen to Big Blue. And I say that as someone who mostly detests John Byrne; his hatchet job on Wonder Woman was one of comics’ worst atrocities.) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/39 "2016-09-19T20:39:52Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > The OP said nothing about box office. The question is why “DC/Warner Brothers movies just seem to always be met with **critical and fan rejection**.” A good box office is the opposite of fan rejection. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114/40 "2016-09-19T20:48:41Z")
I think it is generally accepted that DC does a better job on TV. Sure there is the teen/20something relationship element on the CW shows (Smallville, Arrow, Flash, and soon Supergirl) but they are pretty good IMHO. There is also Gotham which has some good stuff. They range in darkness – from dark to light I’d say Gotham, Arrow, Flash, and Supergirl (though the last two are pretty close). Brian [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-dc-get-it-right/766114.md?page=3)