# Why Can't Drones Self-Destruct? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286 "2011-12-06T18:59:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/41 "2011-12-07T17:27:27Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > If a data link radio can be captured still under power, the key can be extracted. So? They key is part of a key pair which is discarded if the drone is lost or presumed lost. It is never reused. > [@](#): > > Imaging data goes into a ruggedized hard drive. That can be recovered regardless of power condition. Not a problem if the data is encrypted with the video channel’s public key before it’s written to the hard drive. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/42 "2011-12-07T17:39:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The drone already carries missiles, right? Only if it’s an attack drone. Most are surveillance drones. > [@](#): > > Just tell the missiles to attack a target 0 meters from the launch point. > [@Morbo](#): > > MISSILES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/43 "2011-12-07T17:50:36Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > MISSILES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY The warhead could certainly be command detonated while it’s still on the wing. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/44 "2011-12-07T17:54:32Z")
The thing about anti-aircraft missles and so on is that they don’t make the target explode into a giant fireball like in the movies. Instead, the goal is to damage the target to make it unflyable, and let the ground do the work of smashing the target into tiny bits. So telling the autopilot to auger at into the ground is a lot more effective method of self destruction than detonating missiles on their rails, since all that will do is blow a hole in the wing, and all that will do is cause the drone to crash. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/45 "2011-12-07T18:42:44Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > There’s a whole industry devoted to reverse-engineering ICs. Having the marking on the package probably wouldn’t even help, since the interesting ICs would all be custom. Anyway, there are people who de-cap the chip, and then use electron microscopes, x-rays, focused ion beam probes and other esoteric gear to reveal the design layer-by-layer… But Iran surely does not have the chops for this. They trade it to China, North Korea, Russia…? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/46 "2011-12-07T18:43:48Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > But Iran surely does not have the chops for this. They trade it to China, North Korea, Russia…? Of course. The problems of living in a global economy… ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/47 "2011-12-07T18:48:24Z")
Suppose the Iranians copy the memroy in the drone’s computer-could it infect their computers? There have been several mysterious explosions at Iranian military facilities-could this be another phase in a cyber war? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/48 "2011-12-07T18:52:19Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Suppose the Iranians copy the memroy in the drone’s computer-could it infect their computers? > There have been several mysterious explosions at Iranian military facilities-could this be another phase in a cyber war? You must watch too much TV… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/49 "2011-12-07T19:20:04Z")
> [@Evil\_Jon](#): > > [Site](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/06/drone-lost-in-iran-was-joint-cia-military-reconnaissance-plane) > > So not only is it not programmed to self destruct, but instead programmed to serve itself up on a platter. Well, consider the alternative. These drones are not small machines. Having a drone, with its load of AV gas, slam into an inhabited area is a Bad Thing. Japan figured out in WW2 that the distinction between a missile and an airplane is slim at best. If you lose control of a drone, you really _don’t_ want it to turn into a missile that fires itself at a random target. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/50 "2011-12-07T19:29:53Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Suppose the Iranians copy the memroy in the drone’s computer-could it infect their computers? > There have been several mysterious explosions at Iranian military facilities-could this be another phase in a cyber war? Seems like an awfully expensive way to go about it, when history suggests that all you need to do is leave a few infected USB flash drives scattered in parking lots and public spaces. ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/51 "2011-12-09T14:14:30Z")
How come iranian video shows an intact drone? Was it a smooth landing?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/52 "2011-12-09T15:52:00Z")
The Iranians are claiming that they commandeered the control signal and flew the craft to a soft landing themselves. Short of their having previously obtained significant (and obviously classified) documentation about the craft’s systems this isn’t credible. We all assume that the control signals were encrypted, and even without encryption it is hard to imagine that they knew how to command it to do their bidding. If the US had lost craft previously we might believe some reverse engineering was possible. I do wonder how the plane would react to a totally jammed GPS signal. It may not have a useful backup nav system, and it might end up aimlessly flying about until it ran out of fuel. Given that the US has already said that they assumed that such drones were at risk, they may well not have included a P channel GPS receiver, so it is possible the the drone could have had its GPS signal spoofed rather than just jammed. That could raise all sorts of interesting possibilities as to how you could effectively take command. Much would depend upon how autonomous its operations are. (I’m assuming that spoofing the P channel is still infeasible - this may no longer be true.) The video doesn’t show the bottom of the craft, indeed it is rather carefully covered up. A lot of this is quite a game, so it would not surprise me if they have reconstructed it from a crashed plane, and shown this off to stir things up. The goal will be to make the US stop flying drones over Iran, believing them to be now at risk. These games always involve subterfuge and bluff. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/53 "2011-12-09T15:57:49Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > The Iranians are claiming that they commandeered the control signal and flew the craft to a soft landing themselves. Short of their having previously obtained significant (and obviously classified) documentation about the craft’s systems this isn’t credible. Why? Can’t it be assumed that both China and Russia would have an interest in knowing how to Jam or take control of american drones and would supply personnel and equipment in order to study this. They’ve had 3 or 4 years of drone operations over Iran to eavesdrop on the signals and try and decrypt them and the real possibility of getting human intel from Lockheed-Martin employees or contractors as well. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/54 "2011-12-09T16:16:47Z")
That is why I wrote “short of” - it really assumes that level of application of intelligence operations - and indeed help from other powers. Still makes breaking the encryption a problem. Modern encryption systems are really really hard to crack. But if they did manage to reverse out the private key of the command channel it could be possible to take command. That would imply lax procedures on the part of the plane’s controllers (by not changing keys) - but that is exactly the sort of thing that code breakers look for. So I would agree that there is a possibility. There remains a real chance that some, or all, of the control systems used are derived from off the self, and even off the self commercial, equipment. In which case things would be much easier, once any encryption was broken. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/55 "2011-12-09T16:35:17Z")
> [@Evil\_Jon](#): > > [Site](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/06/drone-lost-in-iran-was-joint-cia-military-reconnaissance-plane) > > So not only is it not programmed to self destruct, but instead programmed to serve itself up on a platter. Other sources have widely reported this differently, that the drones are programmed to return to base if they lose radio contact. ([Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/07/us-iran-usa-drone-idUSTRE7B60BP20111207), [Associated Press](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle-east/iranian-state-tv-broadcasts-video-of-captured-us-drone/2011/12/08/gIQAli9XfO_story.html), etc.) ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/56 "2011-12-09T16:40:22Z")
From what’s been said I don’t see much sense in including any mechanism for destroying the hard elements (design, materials, etc) of a surveillance drone. But for all the sensitive electronics coding, couldn’t that include scripting that would erase or leave unintelligable everything if it didn’t continue to receive authorized inputs within short, reasonable periods of time? ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/57 "2011-12-09T19:31:50Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > TWe all assume that the control signals were encrypted, and even without encryption it is hard to imagine that they knew how to command it to do their bidding. We do NOT all assume that. Unencrypted comms is a multi-platform platform, with [this](http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/12/not-just-drones-militants-can-snoop-on-most-us-warplanes/) being just an example. Crypto functions place fairly high demands on comms hardware. For most data transmission, it’s not _too_ big a deal. But if comms are broken or compromise detected, session re-negotiation can cause a lot of things to go wrong. Think about it this way, if your PC/MAC loses its association with a wireless AP with crypto protection, there’s a good chance you’ve got to restart the router to perform re-negotiation of the keys (as well as DHCP, etc). No big deal - you can run to wherever the router is and kickstart the box. Tougher to do when the box is 10,000 miles away. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/58 "2011-12-10T16:10:27Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > … But if they did manage to reverse out the private key of the command channel it could be possible to take command. That would imply lax procedures on the part of the plane’s controllers (by not changing keys) … I would think changing key pairs (which I surely do not understand well) would be done automatically in millisecond intervals. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/59 "2011-12-10T18:14:25Z")
If _you_ can set off a self-destruct device, then _somebody else_ can hack your system, & set off a self-destruct device. **BTW–bets the Iranians used a virus to get control of a drone?** :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Bellwood1030](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@Bellwood1030](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellwood1030)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286/60 "2011-12-10T22:00:55Z")
The danger seems to lie not so much on what’s on the devices inside the drone as on the devices themselves. This is an AP article that I found on an Israeli news site: > [@](#): > > Experts said the drone probably carried an advanced radar system as well as other specialized sensors, including detectors for monitoring nuclear sites. If those were reverse-engineered by Iran, they could give insights into how to hide its nuclear facilities from the US surveillance. > > Russia, China, North Korea and others may be interested in examining the Sentinel. For example, US drones have advanced engines that allow them to remain patrolling an area for days. China is thought to be struggling to master this technology. > > Singer said it would be difficult for any country to exploit the technological bonanza of a downed Sentinel, but having one to pull apart will give them a start. > > “Bottom line, it’s never easy to reverse-engineer anything, let alone something like a radar, but having a working or even damaged system in hand to study up close makes it a heck of a lot easier,” he said. Here’s the site: [http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4159628,00.html](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4159628,00.html) I also read a Wall Street Journal article last Wednesday that said US officials considered using covert operations to destroy the drone; possibilities included sending in a team to blow up the drone, sending in a team to retrieve the drone, or targeting the drone with air strikes. Thanks for the many interesting and informative answers. The US military could use you guys; they apparently didn’t think of any of this stuff beforehand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-drones-self-destruct/605286.md?page=4)