# Why can't I eat rotten meat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 2, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316 "2005-08-02T16:19:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/41 "2005-08-03T23:10:32Z")
We use 70% ethanol (basically strong vodka (140 proof)) for decontaminating our clean lab. However, it works through evaporation, not soaking. Moreover, I can’t imagine it would be a delicious marinade. Off the top of my head, I don’t know of and home acid/base which is both edible, and strong enough to denature proteins ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/42 "2005-08-03T23:24:28Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > 1. Is **Blake** right that the toxins really can’t be removed from the meat’s cells? Forget boiling water – what about acids? Mild ones like vinegar or citric acid? Strong ones like hydrochloric or hydroflouric (I realize that after such treatment, there’s probably no edible meat left)? Read carefully. I never said that you couldn’t remove the toxin, I said that you couldn’t remove the toxin by washing. I might similarly say that you can’t remove a tatoo with washing, but you shouldn’t imply that to mean that a tattoo can not be removed with concentrated acids or a blowtorch. Botulism and tetanus toxins for example bind chemically to the proteins of the cell membranes. You can’t get it off with physical force, it needs to be chemically removed. I don’t doubt that extreme heat or concentrated acids would remove the material or denature it, but it isn’t washing. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/43 "2005-08-04T11:00:26Z")
Tetanus endospores (which contain the toxins) only form in the abscence of oxygen, and you won’t find any Clostridium bacteria growing in meat surface (they don’t like oxygen). And any cattle that had signs of Clostridium infection would not be slaughtered and sent to market. Now, if there are maggots, the toxins can accumulate in them, and if you eat the maggots, you may get botulism that way. ---
**Author:** ![Sengkelat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Sengkelat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sengkelat)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/44 "2005-08-04T17:03:07Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > What about birds and animals that scavenge rotting corpses without getting sick? Do they have a sturdier digestive system? Crocodiles, at least, have a peptide in their blood which has been dubbed “[crocodillin](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/680840.stm)” \* which has very impressive antibacterial properties. This probably helps when they’re eating less-than-fresh meat. What I’m curious about is why we make sure to cook chicken all the way through, but a steak seared on the outside is considered safe. Is this for rational reasons? ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/45 "2005-08-04T20:55:53Z")
Salmonella is one of the few bacteria that can penetrate muscle tissue and is found in poultry but not meat. That still doesn’t explain the trend of serving duck rare. Maybe rare chicken just tastes bad. ---
**Author:** ![kaneslatranz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kaneslatranz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaneslatranz)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/46 "2017-06-11T03:33:12Z")
Rotten meat is perfectly fine as long as it is cooked with the correct blend of secret hobo spices.😃 ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/47 "2017-06-11T04:01:17Z")
Do you need to use “heat” to prevent “death”? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/48 "2017-06-11T04:08:17Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Salmonella is one of the few bacteria that can penetrate muscle tissue and is found in poultry but not meat. That still doesn’t explain the trend of serving duck rare. Maybe rare chicken just tastes bad. I realize this is a zombie. An explanation I’ve seen for eating rare duck safely is that ducks are defeathered in a hot wax dip that kills salmonella living on the skin of the duck. Chickens are simply plucked so the salmonella is still present on the skin and eventually penetrates into the meat. I find this unconvincing because turkeys are defeathered with hot wax as well and often infected with salmonella. There are two explanations that do make sense, traditionally ducks weren’t raised in the unsanitary condition of other poultry and less likely to be seriously infected, and that duck meat may appear pink even when cooked to a temperature of 165F, so not rare really, just pink. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/49 "2017-06-11T17:11:57Z")
Everyone knows zombies need living flesh, and shy away from anything that would be rotten. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/50 "2017-06-11T20:10:32Z")
> [@SpectBrain](#): > > I remember hearing, no cite, that the reason pepper and other spices were once so valuable is that they made “bad” meat palatable. True, do you think? I used to hear that all the time in history class, too, but then I read a new article, where a historian pointed out that before refrigators and mass transport (that is, end of 19th century), most people didn’t eat meat. Poor peasants in the middle ages ate stew. Rich nobility would eat game, or freshly slaughtered domestic animals (pig, lamb). Peasants would be allowed to slaughter a pig on certain occasions, like feast days, and most of the meat would be preserved. Wasting very expensive pepper from India on rotting meat just didn’t make economic sense: if you had pepper, you could afford good meat; if you were desperate enough to eat slightly spoiled stuff, you couldn’t afford pepper, either. In a series of historical crime novels written by a journalist researching city archives, she has recipes of rich upper-class merchants in Hamburg around the turn of the 17th/18th century, and the stuff is loaded with spices, even things like chocolate, not because they would taste good together, but to show off. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/51 "2017-06-11T20:22:09Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > I used to hear that all the time in history class, too, but then I read a new article, where a historian pointed out that before refrigators and mass transport (that is, end of 19th century), most people didn’t eat meat. Poor peasants in the middle ages ate stew. Rich nobility would eat game, or freshly slaughtered domestic animals (pig, lamb). Peasants would be allowed to slaughter a pig on certain occasions, like feast days, and most of the meat would be preserved. > > Wasting very expensive pepper from India on rotting meat just didn’t make economic sense: if you had pepper, you could afford good meat; if you were desperate enough to eat slightly spoiled stuff, you couldn’t afford pepper, either. > > In a series of historical crime novels written by a journalist researching city archives, she has recipes of rich upper-class merchants in Hamburg around the turn of the 17th/18th century, and the stuff is loaded with spices, even things like chocolate, not because they would taste good together, but to show off. So, that’s like when you have modern hamburgers or deserts that cost thousands of dollars, but the reason is not some spectacular flavor, but all the gold leaf. ---
**Author:** ![Peanuthead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peanuthead/32/360_2.png) [@Peanuthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanuthead)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/52 "2017-06-12T04:26:20Z")
I recall seeing a documentary many years ago about David [Gilpilil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gulpilil)an Australian Aborigine who remained true to his tribal roots and when he wasn’t working on a film returned to his family in the bush and participated in their primitive customs. Those customs included hunting animals and bringing them back to the home base for consumption. Sometimes this took several days, during which time the animals (I believe it was monkeys) became (in the words of the documentarians who were gagging) putrid. The entire village was delighted and consumed the game with pleasure. Apparently this was a common practice among the locals and had no ill effects. Perhaps there is an immunity among certain peoples. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/53 "2017-06-12T07:18:42Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I realize this is a zombie. An explanation I’ve seen for eating rare duck safely is that ducks are defeathered in a hot wax dip that kills salmonella living on the skin of the duck. Chickens are simply plucked so the salmonella is still present on the skin and eventually penetrates into the meat. I find this unconvincing because turkeys are defeathered with hot wax as well and often infected with salmonella. There are two explanations that do make sense, traditionally ducks weren’t raised in the unsanitary condition of other poultry and less likely to be seriously infected, and that duck meat may appear pink even when cooked to a temperature of 165F, so not rare really, just pink. Salmonella is pretty common - probably present on a lot of meat, but as long as that meat has been stored in such a way as to minimise reproduction of the bacteria, it’s not usually a problem - in order to get (infectious, rather than toxic) food poisoning, you typically need to ingest a sufficiently large dose of the bacteria to overwhelm your digestive system, which will typically be a combination of factors such as: [ul] [li]Improper sanitary handling introduced a significant initial population of bacteria[/li][li]Improper storage allowed a large population of bacteria to build[/li][li]Improper cooking did not sufficiently deplete the population to a safe level[/li][/ul] If the first two of those factors are controlled, the third becomes less important (and then meat is safer to eat rare) ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/54 "2017-06-12T08:02:52Z")
In Europe it used to be normal to hang game for several days/weeks > [@](#): > > The great Jean Anthelme Brillat-Savarin doesn’t give a timetable, but says, “the peak is reached when the pheasant begins to decompose; its aroma develops, and mixes with an oil which in order to form must undergo a certain amount of fermentation, just as the oil in coffee can only be drawn out by roasting it.” A freshly killed pheasant is tough and fairly tasteless; hang it for three or four days and it becomes tender and tasty. > [@](#): > > Pheasants hung for 9 days at 50°F have been found by overseas taste panels to be more acceptable than those hung for 4 days at 59°F or for 18 days at 41°F. The taste panels thought that the birds stored at 59°F were tougher than those held for longer periods at lower temperatures. Pheasants hung at 50°F became more ‘gamy’ in flavour and more tender with length of hanging. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/55 "2017-06-12T09:01:48Z")
I think it still is pretty common - I’ve heard people talk about hanging it by the tail feathers until it falls, or (for greater effect) hanging it by the neck until it falls. I’ve tasted pheasant that was hung for a long time - it was certainly tender and richly-flavoured, but the flavour worked in the same way as stinky cheese - you have to get it past your nose and convince yourself that you’re not eating garbage, in order to begin to appreciate it. I don’t eat pheasant often enough to develop that appreciation, so it’s a bit of a challenge every time. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/56 "2017-06-12T09:33:20Z")
Just also to note: I think I am right in saying that pheasant hung for a long time would not normally be eaten rare - but would be either be braised long and slow, or would be roasted really hot. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/57 "2017-06-15T20:18:15Z")
My thoughts on this… Clearly true “food poisoning” (as in poisonous chemicals produced by microbes that are still there even after cooking) does obviously happen, and is very serious, sometimes fatal, how common is it statistically speaking? Anecdotally most of the “food poisoining” I have encountered personally was most likely caused by actual microbes, and _I think_ have been prevented if the food in question had been properly cooked immediately before serving. The case in the OP is pretty extreme, but I am generally pretty scathing of the germophobic inclination of society generally (“OMG this meat has been kept out of the fridge briefly, we can’t possibly cook it!”) My general attitude meat that is not obviously rancid or rotten is safe to cook through and eat. Is there a statistic someone can point me to back me up, or convince me I’m crazy, e.g. “in X percent of cases scientists detected dangerous chemicals in meat that had been left at Y degrees for Z minutes would not be removed by cooking”. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/58 "2017-06-16T08:10:33Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Clearly true “food poisoning” (as in poisonous chemicals produced by microbes that are still there even after cooking) does obviously happen, and is very serious, sometimes fatal, how common is it statistically speaking? Anecdotally most of the “food poisoining” I have encountered personally was most likely caused by actual microbes, and _I think_ have been prevented if the food in question had been properly cooked immediately before serving. I don’t have specific numbers or percentages, either, (it’s not a dangerous disease that must be reported to the CDC or equivalent), but every summer the newspaper warn about (and later Report on) Salmonella outbreaks, which usually result in a few deaths from weakened individuals / elderly/ children. Salmonella is a Problem esp. with chicken, because roasting the outside keeps the inside at 65 C which is warm enough to breed, but not hot enough to kill the nasties, and because some part of the Population doesn’t read the right brochures/ articles on the Basic things like “don’t put raw chicken meat onto the same surface you cut your salad on, because this Transfers the dangerous bacteria onto the raw Food” and similar. We had a big EHEC case several years back in the summer because it had landed on some salad that was distributed widely - and salad is wonderful summer Food, but not really cookable. It’s hard to eat only cooked Food in the summer, no salad or Sandwiches, esp. during all the outdoor Events (I was at the Protestant Church meet during that time: all stalls with a bit of cooling, some Sandwiches and salad. Fine all the many times before). ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/59 "2017-06-16T09:32:20Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Salmonella is one of the few bacteria that can penetrate muscle tissue and is found in poultry but not meat. That still doesn’t explain the trend of serving duck rare. Maybe rare chicken just tastes bad. People pay good money to eat raw chicken but like with a lot of things it depends on exactly what you’re eating, how it was prepared, and how much you trust the establishment. I might trust this place to serve me raw chicken [Counter Is Friendly: Eating Raw Chicken in Japan | The Mad Traveler](http://themadtraveler.com/blog/counter-is-friendly-eating-raw-chicken-in-japan/) Asking KFC to give me a bargain bucket but skip the frying? Not so much. Similarly I’ve eaten steak tartare plenty of times with no ill effects, and that is essentially raw hamburger with a raw egg on top, both things which are risk factors if the whole food handling chain isn’t set up on the understanding that ‘there is no safety net here, pay attention’. Not the sort of thing that lends itself to serving thousands of portions a day in a casual dining environment. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/60 "2017-06-16T11:00:37Z")
> [@Peanuthead](#): > > I recall seeing a documentary many years ago about David [Gilpilil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gulpilil)an Australian Aborigine who remained true to his tribal roots and when he wasn’t working on a film returned to his family in the bush and participated in their primitive customs. Those customs included hunting animals and bringing them back to the home base for consumption. Sometimes this took several days, during which time the animals (I believe it was monkeys) became (in the words of the documentarians who were gagging) putrid. The entire village was delighted and consumed the game with pleasure. Apparently this was a common practice among the locals and had no ill effects. Perhaps there is an immunity among certain peoples. Where do you hunt monkeys in Australia? The zoo? :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316.md?page=4)