# Why can't I eat rotten meat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 2, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316 "2005-08-02T16:19:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/61 "2017-06-16T14:03:53Z")
I believe no one has yet mentioned the Icelandic delicacy, rotted shark. I can’t find my Icelandic cookbook, but Wikipedia describes it thus: > [@](#): > > Kæstur hákarl contains a large amount of ammonia and has a strong smell, similar to many cleaning products. It is often served in cubes on toothpicks. Those new to it may gag involuntarily on the first attempt to eat it because of the high ammonia content. First-timers are sometimes advised to pinch their nose while taking the first bite, as the smell is much stronger than the taste. The recipe: > [@](#): > > The traditional method is by gutting and beheading a Greenland or sleeper shark and placing it in a shallow hole dug in gravelly sand, with the now cleaned cavity resting on a small mound of sand. The shark is then covered with sand and gravel, and stones are placed on top of the sand in order to press the shark. In this way the fluids are pressed out of the body. The shark ferments in this fashion for 6–12 weeks depending on the season. Following this curing period, the shark is then cut into strips and hung to dry for several months. During this drying period a brown crust will develop, which is removed prior to cutting the shark into small pieces and serving. > **[Hákarl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A1karl)** > > Hákarl (an abbreviation of kæstur hákarl \[ˈcʰaistʏr ˈhauːˌkʰa(r)tl̥\]), referred to as fermented shark in English, is a national dish of Iceland consisting of Greenland shark or other sleeper shark that has been cured with a particular fermentation process and hung to dry for four to five months. It has a strong ammonia-rich smell and fishy taste, making hákarl an acquired taste. > Fermented shark is readily available in Icelandic stores and may be eaten year-round, but is most often served as pa... ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/62 "2017-06-16T15:06:15Z")
> [@susan](#): > > I believe no one has yet mentioned the Icelandic delicacy, rotted shark. I can’t find my Icelandic cookbook, but Wikipedia describes it thus: > > The recipe: > > [Hákarl - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A1karl) The illustrations: [https://satwcomic.com/nordics-like-fish](https://satwcomic.com/nordics-like-fish) and consequences [Have a safe trip home - Scandinavia and the World](https://satwcomic.com/have-a-safe-trip-home) (and other Food [Exotic Food - Scandinavia and the World](https://satwcomic.com/exotic-food)) ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/63 "2017-06-16T16:26:25Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Salmonella is a Problem esp. with chicken, I’ve heard this my whole life, but every single salmonella outbreak I know of has been from spinach or lettuce or some other poorly washed produce. Do we have any actual statistics on salmonella in chicken? My understanding is that, like trichinosis and pork, the social mores are a holdover from a time when those diseases were far more common. I’ve seen cooks suggest serving medium rare pork these days in pushback to the common wisdom, because they know pork is far less likely to contain trichinosis than it was 50 or 100 years ago. I haven’t seen anyone suggest rare chicken yet (except for that restaurant in Japan linked upthread), but my understanding is the situations are similar. Chicken from reputable farms/butchers just won’t have salmonella, or at least it’s far less common than salmonella from other sources, like produce. But I’m willing to be persuaded otherwise if you’ve got the numbers. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/64 "2017-06-16T16:50:04Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I’ve heard this my whole life, but every single salmonella outbreak I know of has been from spinach or lettuce or some other poorly washed produce. Do we have any actual statistics on salmonella in chicken? Salmonella on lettuce can get there two ways: liquid manure sprayed on the fields carrying Salmonella putting raw chicken on a board and then putting raw lettuce on the same board. Salmonella are hard to kill, normal Soap and lukewarm water are not enough. > [@](#): > > My understanding is that, like trichinosis and pork, the social mores are a holdover from a time when those diseases were far more common. I’ve seen cooks suggest serving medium rare pork these days in pushback to the common wisdom, because they know pork is far less likely to contain trichinosis than it was 50 or 100 years ago. That’s not a good comparisioin. Trichinosis are parasites: can be seen with the naked eye, and different to fight than bacteria. > [@](#): > > Chicken from reputable farms/butchers just won’t have salmonella, or at least it’s far less common than salmonella from other sources, like produce. But I’m willing to be persuaded otherwise if you’ve got the numbers. Unless you buy directly on the farm and have a look-around, Most meat People buy at the Supermarket is cheap because it’s mass -produced (I don’t have the percentages for the US, but the Price can’t be achieved with a dozen chickens in a Yard). These industrial farming of putting 5 000 chickens on 5 Levels in one house, each in a Cage as big as legal paper, is a breeding ground and Transmission for all bacteria. This is a big Problem, because either there is a law that the People running These industrial farms give anti-biotics in advance to stop the diseases - which doctors are very upset about (for good reason) - or you forbid them, and risk the chickens being infected with disesases. I think the later is the current US Approach, and hence the rule from the FDA that all chicken must be dunked into bleach solution at the slaughterhouse. I don’t know how many Salmonella that really kills (and how many linger on the inside of the meat?), because dunking Food in bleach is not allowed in Europe (we think that’s eww, we want to eat it). All measures that reduce infection cost the farm owners Money and make less Profit, so the industry opposes health and animal protection measures (here as well). In Addition, several thousands chickesn in one place produce a lot of liquid manure, and the cheapest way to get rid of it is to spray it on some fields or somewhere. If the law doesn’t forbid it, it’s a huge Problem for groundwater and a way to carry bacteria far and wide. But properly disposing of liquid manure costs the farmer Money, so again they oppose it. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/65 "2017-06-16T17:04:47Z")
The commercial chicken facilities I’ve visited actual take preventative measures against infection. Our happy chickens? None whatsoever. Damn things are probably crawling with nasties. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/66 "2017-06-16T17:32:14Z")
I thank you, **constanze.** ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/67 "2017-06-16T22:50:20Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I think it still is pretty common - I’ve heard people talk about hanging it by the tail feathers until it falls, or (for greater effect) hanging it by the neck until it falls. > > I’ve tasted pheasant that was hung for a long time - it was certainly tender and richly-flavoured, but the flavour worked in the same way as stinky cheese - you have to get it past your nose and convince yourself that you’re not eating garbage, in order to begin to appreciate it. > > I don’t eat pheasant often enough to develop that appreciation, so it’s a bit of a challenge every time. My main complaint on the few occasions I’ve had game in the US is it is not gamey enough (I’m from a rural area of the UK where properly hung game is common). Is serving game the way it is meant to be served (i.e. hung up unrefrigerated for a while prior to cooking) be legal in a restaurant anywhere in the US ?(specifically in California) But going back to the OP one thing people should bear in mind with all these ‘I ate X and was fine’ story is that the immune system in healthy adults have is a bloody powerful mechanism (if it wasn’t we wouldn’t be here). So it’s quite possible there was dangerous microbes in X but some part of your immune system did it’s job. This speaks to my point above about “true” food poisoning, as presumably your immune system won’t help if the microbes have already generated toxic chemicals. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/68 "2017-06-18T10:14:43Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > The commercial chicken facilities I’ve visited actual take preventative measures against infection. What kind of preventive measures? Giving antibiotics en masse “as precaution” is exactly what doctors and scientists are upset about and want to change. If you have several thousands chickens next to each other, with open sores from stress-picking despite clipping the beaks, and feathers falling out from stress, and shit everywhere - you have one giant breeding place for bacteria. > [@](#): > > Our happy chickens? None whatsoever. Damn things are probably crawling with nasties. Happy chickens are usually much more healthy chickens because they are much less stressed. Do they have open sores? Pick themselves or each other? Feathers falling out? Also, if you actually see signs that one of the chickens is ill, you can isolate it and treat it. In an industrial setting, nobody knows which and how many of the thousands chickens are sick, and there’s no place for isolation. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/69 "2017-06-18T13:58:28Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > What kind of preventive measures? Giving antibiotics en masse “as precaution” is exactly what doctors and scientists are upset about and want to change. Separate biosecurity uniforms for each facility. Sterilize tools and equipment before bringing them in. Destroy infected birds and equipment if needed. But most importantly, prevent access by wild avians. No antibiotics as you describe because they want a Perdue label. > [@constanze](#): > > If you have several thousands chickens next to each other, with open sores from stress-picking despite clipping the beaks, and feathers falling out from stress, and shit everywhere - you have one giant breeding place for bacteria. > > Happy chickens are usually much more healthy chickens because they are much less stressed. Do they have open sores? Pick themselves or each other? Feathers falling out? > > Also, if you actually see signs that one of the chickens is ill, you can isolate it and treat it. In an industrial setting, nobody knows which and how many of the thousands chickens are sick, and there’s no place for isolation. It certainly makes for good imagery. Chickens peck. Our chickens peck. Sometimes they break the skin. Sometimes they pull feathers out. If one looks sick we kill it. But I don’t recall more than a few instances. Usually they just die. No suiting up. No disenfectants. Nothing to prevent them from eating feed that overflying geese have shit in. No mechanism to shuttle the eggs away when they lay. Instead, they just shit on the egg until someone picks it up, eventually. And so it’s​ no surprise CDC is seeing record infections from backyard chickens: [https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/live-poultry-05-16/index.html/](https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/live-poultry-05-16/index.html/) ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/70 "2017-06-18T15:37:18Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Separate biosecurity uniforms for each facility. Sterilize tools and equipment before bringing them in. Destroy infected birds and equipment if needed. How exactly do uniforms or equipment help if a few thousands chicken sit in an automated house and shit everywhere? 😕 > [@](#): > > But most importantly, prevent access by wild avians. That’s good to prevent the bird flu strains, which are usually transmitted by wild geese etc. But I was talking about salmonella. How do you know that in these 1 000 chickens in a fully automated facility, one is sick and infecting all others? > [@](#): > > No antibiotics as you describe because they want a Perdue label. I don’t know what a Perdue label is, how strict or tightly controlled it is. > [@](#): > > No suiting up. No disenfectants. Nothing to prevent them from eating feed that overflying geese have shit in. Feed should be in covered containers, even for organic or animals-friendly chickens. > [@](#): > > No mechanism to shuttle the eggs away when they lay. Instead, they just shit on the egg until someone picks it up, eventually. Are you saying they don’t have nests where they lay the eggs? They usually don’t shit into the nest. Also, eggs have a shell that can be washed. > [@](#): > > And so it’s​ no surprise CDC is seeing record infections from backyard chickens: [https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/live-poultry-05-16/index.html/](https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/live-poultry-05-16/index.html/) I wasn’t talking about unsupervised backyard chickens. The alternative here is organic or animal-friendly chicken. But no matter what, there are rules, and there should be a regular control. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/71 "2017-06-18T15:49:14Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > … Is serving game the way it is meant to be served (i.e. hung up unrefrigerated for a while prior to cooking) be legal in a restaurant anywhere in the US ?(specifically in California)… Sad to say, it is not that the hanging of wild game is illegal, the serving of it is; hell the _selling_ of it is. The unimpressive taste of all retail winged game in America, barring the seasonal import of Scottish grouse, for some reason, is a result of their being raised under huge nets, i.e., farmed, with little muscle development of note. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/72 "2017-06-18T17:29:31Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > How exactly do uniforms or equipment help if a few thousands chicken sit in an automated house and shit everywhere? 😕 They’re spending the money to make a fashion statement. > [@constanze](#): > > That’s good to prevent the bird flu strains, which are usually transmitted by wild geese etc. > > But I was talking about salmonella. How do you know that in these 1 000 chickens in a fully automated facility, one is sick and infecting all others? HACPP plans, self-inspection, inspection by USDA FSIS > [@constanze](#): > > I don’t know what a Perdue label is, how strict or tightly controlled it is. You are correct. > [@constanze](#): > > Feed should be in covered containers, even for organic or animals-friendly chickens. > > Are you saying they don’t have nests where they lay the eggs? They usually don’t shit into the nest. > > Also, eggs have a shell that can be washed. > > I wasn’t talking about unsupervised backyard chickens. The alternative here is organic or animal-friendly chicken. But no matter what, there are rules, and there should be a regular control. Go outside and watch your chickens eat. The feed doesn’t stay in containers. Chickens scratch. Chickens forage. Organic chicken meat in the store has plenty of [bugs](http://article.images.consumerreports.org/prod/content/dam/cro/news_articles/health/chicken-contamination). One thing that’s funny about the USDA organic label is that the feed has to be animal-free, but of course any small animal that makes the mistake of wondering into the yard is a goner. Usually mice, mourning doves, and various insects IME. We _could_ require vaccination of chickens for salmonella. The UK does this. Campylobacter would be nice too but AFAIK there isn’t one available. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/73 "2017-06-18T21:09:37Z")
People in this thread seem to be talking about contaminated meat when the original question was about rotten meat. The bacteria that cause putrefaction are not (as far as I know) pathogenic in humans. And you can get salmonella from perfectly fresh meat. Incidentally, I’ve eaten chicken sashimi. I don’t know how they keep salmonella out of the food chain in Japan (perhaps it involves a lot of antibiotics). ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316/74 "2017-06-19T00:29:09Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > Let’s say I have a big ol’ hunk of steak. I decide to leave it on the counter for a couple weeks, but covered very well so no bugs get on it (by bugs I mean insects and so forth, lots of bacteria will still get on it, but I’m counting on that.) > > Now, the meat is certainly rotted by this point. But what if I cooked it and ate it? In theory, as long as I cook the entire steak hot enough, wouldn’t everything bad die? I certainly wouldn’t be able to enjoy it medium rare, but if I cooked it well past well done (say I just put it in a 300 degree oven for four hours) what would me me sick? Could I still eat it and be fine? Or does something actually happen to the meat itself during the rotting process that makes it bad to go into my system? > > And what if the meat in question were fish or chicken? Would that make any appreciable difference? Yes, normally if you properly cook bad meat, it is safe to eat. Two reservations: (1) It’s not _always_ safe to eat, and (2) anaerobic bacteria are more dangerous than stuff that grows in the presence of air. Including Botulinum, an anerobic bacteria that produces botulinum toxin, which is not destroyed by ordinary cooking. And Perfringens is so dangerous that you wouldn’t want to even handle the raw meat, even if it might be safe after cooking. But if you watch enough “man in the wild” television, eventually you’ll see someone eating some dead animal they just found. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-eat-rotten-meat/315316.md?page=3)