# Why can't I volunteer to get paid below minimum wage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 2, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262 "2013-12-02T02:47:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/81 "2013-12-02T18:16:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What better paying jobs? They’ll all be in the same race to the bottom. Sure. There were no well-paying jobs before 1938. None at all. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/82 "2013-12-02T18:17:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Should corporations get tax breaks for contributing to charities? Do you volunteer to pay higher taxes for this to happen? I would do better than tax breaks. No taxes at all. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/83 "2013-12-02T18:18:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Move in with parents. Have many roommates. Work more than 8 hours a day. Use the charity that is available. **And, above all, look for better-paying jobs, anywhere in the country.** [Take a look here.](http://stateofworkingamerica.org/charts/unemployed-and-job-openings-by-industry/) There are far more out of work people than there are jobs. Even if every job was filled, then what? How do propose that someone look for a job elsewhere in the country if they don’t have the money for airfare, hotel, transport, first/last month rent or downpayment, movers, etc? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/84 "2013-12-02T18:19:33Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Here’s the thing though. There aren’t going to be a lot of $5/hr jobs even if we repealed the minimum wage, because anybody who is only worth $5/hr probably isn’t even worth that. > > Employers hire employees because they believe the employee will earn more money for the business than they cost in salary, benefits, compliance, accidents, and so on. If you were McDonalds would you hire a homeless guy for $4/hour to scrub the floor? No, because that homeless guy is going to do a terrible job. That person is unemployable, not because wages are arbitrarily set too high, but because they don’t have the mental and physical skills to hold a job at any wage. You’re arguing for abolishing minimum-wage laws, since wages self-regulating would take care of it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/85 "2013-12-02T18:20:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I would do better than tax breaks. No taxes at all. Do you think private charities would be adequate if all government programs designed for that purpose were cut, especially if corporations no longer received tax breaks for contributing to said charities? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/86 "2013-12-02T18:21:10Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Even if every job was filled, then what? It’s an economy, not one store. There is never such a thing as “every job was filled”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/87 "2013-12-02T18:22:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you think private charities would be adequate if all government programs designed for that purpose were cut, especially if corporations no longer received tax breaks for contributing to said charities? Yes. People rise to the occasion. If I saw dire need, I’d up my charity contributions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/88 "2013-12-02T18:22:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s an economy, not one store. There is never such a thing as “every job was filled”. On what do you base that statement? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/89 "2013-12-02T18:23:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > On what do you base that statement? On reality. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/90 "2013-12-02T18:23:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. People rise to the occasion. If I saw dire need, I’d up my charity contributions. And again I ask: When in our history has private charity ever been enough? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/91 "2013-12-02T18:25:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > On reality. If this were a thread on alternate realities I might accept that answer, but it’s not. On what factual information do you base your statement? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/92 "2013-12-02T18:27:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And again I ask: When in our history has private charity ever been enough? Pointing at centiry+ old economies is comparing apples and oranges. And as for modern times, can’t show you since in modern times governments use forceful redistribution instead of leaving it to charities. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/93 "2013-12-02T18:28:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If this were a thread on alternate realities I might accept that answer, but it’s not. > On what factual information do you base your statement? On the fact that there has not been one millisecond ever that there hasn’t been a job opening somewhere. There is no such thing in an economy as “every job was filled”. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/94 "2013-12-02T18:28:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s an economy, not one store. There is never such a thing as “every job was filled”. There are still far more workers than jobs. Stop ducking the question. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/95 "2013-12-02T18:31:15Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > There are still far more workers than jobs. Stop ducking the question. … and people still find jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/96 "2013-12-02T18:31:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Pointing at centiry+ old economies is comparing apples and oranges. And as for modern times, can’t show you since in modern times governments use forceful redistribution instead of leaving it to charities. So, other than hand-waving and wishful thinking, you’ve got absolutely nothing to show us concerning the viability of using private charity _alone_ to do the job, right? Why do you suppose the charitable government programs you despise so much were started in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/97 "2013-12-02T18:35:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > … and people still find jobs. Some find jobs, most don’t. It’s not uncommon for say, a Walmart to advertise 20 openings and have several hundred show up. So what should happen to those who get “numbered” out? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/98 "2013-12-02T18:35:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > On the fact that there has not been one millisecond ever that there hasn’t been a job opening somewhere. There is no such thing in an economy as “every job was filled”. 1. Are there currently more jobs then there are people looking for work? 2. How many of those jobs are unfilled because they require training and/or experience that most in the current job market do not possess? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/99 "2013-12-02T18:36:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So, other than hand-waving and wishful thinking, you’ve got absolutely nothing to show us concerning the viability of using private charity _alone_ to do the job, right? Since the conditions for the experiment are not allowed to exist, why do you expect any such experimental results? > [@](#): > > Why do you suppose the charitable government programs you despise so much were started in the first place? Again, apples and oranges. Why don’t you go to medieval times for examples - they are even more dire. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/100 "2013-12-02T18:37:23Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Some find jobs, most don’t. It’s not uncommon for say, a Walmart to advertise 20 openings and have several hundred show up. > > So what should happen to those who get “numbered” out? Look for another job, since there are job openings out there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262.md?page=6)