# Why can't I volunteer to get paid below minimum wage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 2, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262 "2013-12-02T02:47:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/101 "2013-12-02T18:38:42Z")
You can tell your argument is utter shit, if it works equally shitty everywhere. Why can’t I legally purchase crystal meth? > [@Terr](#): > > Because the state knows better than you what’s good for you. Why can’t people prostitute their children? > [@Terr](#): > > Because the state knows better than you what’s good for you. Why can’t I purchase plutonium for home defense? > [@Terr](#): > > Because the state knows better than you what’s good for you. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/102 "2013-12-02T18:39:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. Are there currently more jobs then there are people looking for work? There are more job openings than zero. So people who are looking for work can fill those. > [@](#): > > 1. How many of those jobs are unfilled because they require training and/or experience that most in the current job market do not possess? If I don’t have what it takes to do the job, it’s my fault, not the employer’s or the economy’s. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/103 "2013-12-02T18:42:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are more job openings than zero. So people who are looking for work can fill those. How about answering the question I asked, not the “cute” one that you wanted to answer. _Are there currently more jobs then there are people looking for work?_ ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/104 "2013-12-02T18:42:48Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Why can’t I legally purchase crystal meth? I am all for legalization of all drugs. > [@](#): > > Why can’t people prostitute their children? Because they are children. Children don’t have the same rights as adults do and have more protections than adults do. That’s why they are so convenient for the liberal “but what about the cheeeeldrun!” crying. > [@](#): > > Why can’t I purchase plutonium for home defense? Because no one will sell it to you. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/105 "2013-12-02T18:43:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Look for another job, since there are job openings out there. There are far more workers than jobs. How do you solve that? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/106 "2013-12-02T18:45:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Are there currently more jobs then there are people looking for work?_ No. Yet those are not the same “jobs” from minute to minute and those are not the same “people looking for work” minute to minute. So you’re trying to fit a nebulous ever-changing substance into another nebulous ever-changing substance, pretending that they are something concrete. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/107 "2013-12-02T18:46:05Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > There are far more workers than jobs. How do you solve that? I solve it by finding a job, filling one of the job openings that exist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/108 "2013-12-02T18:46:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Look for another job, since there are job openings out there. What percentage of the jobs out there are jobs most people can do(i.e. do not require special training or previous experience? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/109 "2013-12-02T18:48:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No. Yet those are not the same “jobs” from minute to minute and those are not the same “people looking for work” minute to minute. So you’re trying to fit a nebulous ever-changing substance into another nebulous ever-changing substance, pretending that they are something concrete. 1. How many jobs are currently available? 2. How many people are currently looking for work? 3. Which is the greater number? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/110 "2013-12-02T18:48:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What percentage of the jobs out there are jobs most people can do(i.e. do not require special training or previous experience? Non-zero. Which means if I am one such person, I can find such an opening. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/111 "2013-12-02T18:50:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. How many jobs are currently available? > 2. How many people are currently looking for work? > 3. Which is the greater number? Again, (1) is ever changing, second to second, both in quantity and in content. So is (2). So you can’t compare them as if they are some kind of concrete entity. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/112 "2013-12-02T18:51:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There are more job openings than zero. So people who are looking for work can fill those. > If I don’t have what it takes to do the job, it’s my fault, not the employer’s or the economy’s. So everyone is supposed to be trained for every imaginable job? ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/113 "2013-12-02T18:52:11Z")
Terr, how long do you think it would take for somebody to find a new job, on average? Also, isn’t it amazing how quickly Terr can derail threads with his particular brand of amazing “who cares about people, let them all suffer and die” attitude? There are multiple like this. It really ought to just be moved to the pit. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/114 "2013-12-02T18:53:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Non-zero. Which means if I am one such person, I can find such an opening. So this is a variation of “Fuck you, I got mine”? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/115 "2013-12-02T18:55:41Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Terr, how long do you think it would take for somebody to find a new job, on average? How would I possibly know this? If you’re asking how long it would take me to find a new job, on average - probably a couple of weeks, if I am picky. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/116 "2013-12-02T18:56:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Since the conditions for the experiment are not allowed to exist, why do you expect any such experimental results? > Again, apples and oranges. Why don’t you go to medieval times for examples - they are even more dire. And you have no examples whatsoever to back up your own claims. You believe something to be true without evidence. Yes, the evidence we have is over 100 years old, but before current employment protections, including minimum wage, factories chewed through the poor and lower working classes. Dismemberments were not uncommon in children. All manner of injuries were widespread. Deaths were not uncommon, both for getting kicked away from working (either because the injury caused them to be unable to work or an employer just felt like it) and thus starving to death and from workplace accidents. And yet to mitigate all of this, admittedly antiquated evidence, you simply say “It doesn’t matter.” Why doesn’t it matter? Simply because it’s old? Do you think the 1% that controls the wealth in this country is any different in mentality from the old monopolistic companies? If they could, they would use you, spit you out, and do the same to your replacement. Without protections, they would drive out all of their competition and dominate their markets with extreme prejudice. Modern proof? [WalMart](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Walmart). They do the same things to drive profit as those old monopolies by pushing the law as far as they can. What would happen if they could destroy every other retailer by paying people 2 cents an hour? Do you think they’d hesitate? They would milk every penny they could out of everyone they could for the almighty dollar. > [@Terr](#): > > On reality. Obviously not any reality close to you. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/117 "2013-12-02T18:58:20Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Also, isn’t it amazing how quickly Terr can derail threads with his particular brand of amazing “who cares about people, let them all suffer and die” attitude? There are multiple like this. It really ought to just be moved to the pit. I care about people and I don’t want them to suffer and die. That is why, if there was increasing need, I would increase my personal charitable contributions. What I wouldn’t do, though, is forcefully to reach into your pocket in order to help those suffering. I suspect that you would. That’s the difference between us. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/118 "2013-12-02T18:59:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Again, (1) is ever changing, second to second, both in quantity and in content. So is (2). So you can’t compare them as if they are some kind of concrete entity. Here is the reason **Terr** won’t touch this with a ten foot pole: The good news is that the number of jobs available are at an all time high of 3.8 million jobs! Yay!! Now the bad news-there are 12.5 million unemployed people out there right now. Even if each and every one of them received the proper training to get one of those jobs, 8.7 million would still be looking for work. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/119 "2013-12-02T19:00:29Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > And you have no examples whatsoever to back up your own claims. You believe something to be true without evidence. Yes, the evidence we have is over 100 years old, but before current employment protections, including minimum wage, factories chewed through the poor and lower working classes. Different times, different economy, different mores. Apples and oranges. > [@](#): > > What would happen if they could destroy every other retailer by paying people 2 cents an hour? Utterly economically ignorant argument. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262/120 "2013-12-02T19:01:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I care about people and I don’t want them to suffer and die. That is why, if there was increasing need, I would increase my personal charitable contributions. > > What I wouldn’t do, though, is forcefully to reach into your pocket in order to help those suffering. Got a spare 8 million jobs in your pocket for a hungry nation? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-i-volunteer-to-get-paid-below-minimum-wage/675262.md?page=7)