# Why can't people clap in time at concerts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [December 25, 2020, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922 "2020-12-25T23:32:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/21 "2020-12-26T16:03:33Z")
For Elton John’s “Bennie and the Jets” - producer Gus Dudgeon says > The hand clapping that starts about half way through the song was added on the on-beat on purpose saying that, “English audiences always clap on the on beat, they’re always on when they’re supposed to be off.” ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/22 "2020-12-26T16:59:42Z")
I never understand people complaining about others clapping wrong. Either it’s a participatory event and everyone should be encouraging others to participate, including clapping “wrong”, singing “out of tune”, or dancing “unrhythmically”. Or, it’s not and everyone listens quietly and still. Of course, I’m the one who’s clapping on the beats no one else is, because every beat deserves a clap. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/23 "2020-12-26T17:32:46Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > or dancing “unrhythmically” I think we all can agree Elaine Benes is _really_ bad. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/24 "2020-12-26T19:56:24Z")
> [@Mortimus](#): > > Doesn’t matter if the folks in section 503 can’t hear what the folks in 111 are doing. I guess I’m not explaining myself very well, and I certainly defer to your expertise. But I’m not worried that Section 111 can’t hear what Section 503 is doing - I’m worried that they CAN. And hearing sound from another part of the venue is is creating an off-beat echo of sorts. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/25 "2020-12-26T22:11:26Z")
> [@Mortimus](#): > > BTW, I’m a sound engineer by trade And you’re asking _us?_ ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/26 "2020-12-26T22:28:12Z")
This article discusses synchrony in applause (not clapping with the beat, but related). [Self-Organization Dynamics Of Applause Analyzed -- ScienceDaily](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/02/000228082747.htm) ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/27 "2020-12-26T22:44:32Z")
> [@Mortimus](#): > > Now I’ll hijack my own thread. Why can’t some folks dance in time to the music? To me, that’s much more annoying than out-of-sync clapping. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/28 "2020-12-26T22:56:58Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Note the drummer in the background at 0:44 raising his hands in victory. Are we watching the same video? I do not see a drummer at 0:44, although there is a weird jerk at some point around there (didn’t check to see if it was at 0:44 or not) as if something has been edited out. I have to say, the downbeat clapping does not offend me. Most of my musical life is spent on Javanese gamelan, which typically uses a cipher notation that is somewhat analogous to 4/4, but the emphasized beats are 2 and 4, with polyphonic melodic lines converging on a final, strongest 4th beat. I suppose this might have screwed up my perceptions a bit - but I can hear that people are clapping on the 1 and the 3 beat at first, I just don’t find it annoying. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/29 "2020-12-26T23:29:43Z")
> [@Mortimus](#): > > What’s even more rare than an audience that can clap in time is an audience who can actually sing! The Dixie Chicks (now the Chicks) seem to attract an audience that has spent hours practicing in front of the mirror. The sound isn’t the best in this clip, but check out the audience turn at 2:30. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/C9NG7cLNzbs/hqdefault.jpg "Dixie Chicks - Wide Open Spaces") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9NG7cLNzbs) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/30 "2020-12-26T23:37:27Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Are we watching the same video? I do not see a drummer at 0:44, although there is a weird jerk at some point around there (didn’t check to see if it was at 0:44 or not) as if something has been edited out. Yes, it’s pretty much exactly at 0:44. To be exact, four frames after 0:44. When the camera shifts from Harry’s hands to a wider shot, there’s a guy in the background pumping both fists in the air. He’s the drummer. Look at the mic stand area. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/31 "2020-12-27T00:01:21Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > I don’t know, but if it starts and you hear someone in the crowd yell, “Oh my god PLEASE don’t do that!” it’s me. Thanks, finally someone had the guts to say something. We heard you and we stopped. Then, when you said “And down in front, if you don’t mind…”, we sat down. On our hands. ---
**Author:** ![Mortimus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Mortimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mortimus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/32 "2020-12-27T00:05:40Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > And you’re asking _us?_ Yes because it’s always been a niggly little thing in the back of my head for many years. I wanted to find out what non-techy types might say. My guess is most folks don’t even notice the phenomenon. > [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > I think we all can agree Elaine Benes is _really_ bad There is video of me dancing in public. I’m surprised nobody called the EMTs to haul me away. I look like was having a seizure with my hurky jerky moves. Elaine is a great dancer compared to me 🙂 > [@K364](#): > > The hand clapping that starts about half way through the song was added on the on-beat on purpose saying that, “English audiences always clap on the on beat, they’re always on when they’re supposed to be off.” It worked for the recording of that song. I always thought it was a brilliant touch. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/33 "2020-12-27T00:40:56Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > When the camera shifts from Harry’s hands to a wider shot, there’s a guy in the background pumping both fists in the air. He’s the drummer. Look at the mic stand area. Got it! Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/34 "2020-12-27T11:39:12Z")
> [@Mortimus](#): > > Much effort is made to make sure that the same sound hits everybody at the same time at most large concert venues. If the sound system is set up correctly there should be no noticeable difference from from the front row seats to the back of the room. I’m sorry, but that’s a hard disagree from this sound engineer. What you’re describing is physically impossible. 95+% of all large concerts have a main system near the stage, and, depending on the size of the venue, one or multiple delay systems to make up for the losses in volume over the distance. Setting up the system so that everyone hears sound at the same time is just not going to happen, since even in the coverage area of the main stage system you’re going to have a delay of more than 100ms (a rough rule of thumb is 1ms of sound travel time for 1 foot). That’s more than enough to throw everyone off of clapping at the same time. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but you can’t change the speed of sound with a sound system. ---
**Author:** ![Mortimus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Mortimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mortimus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/35 "2020-12-27T14:58:41Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > Setting up the system so that everyone hears sound at the same time is just not going to happen, since even in the coverage area of the main stage system you’re going to have a delay of more than 100ms (a rough rule of thumb is 1ms of sound travel time for 1 foot). Ok, I’ll walk it back. I realize that it is impossible to to get the same sound at the same time in a large venue. The goal is to get as close to that ideal as one can. Delayed fills are used to attempt to achieve that goal while punching sound to areas not covered by the mains. Delayed speakers create another problem. They cause an “in between” zone where the low freq back lobe of the delayed speaker mixes (out of time) with the direct sound from the mains. You can control the back/side lobes somewhat by speaker choice and placement but they will always be there to some degree. I agree that no matter what you do you’ll never get the beat timed perfectly for every seat in the house. Then you add in the natural room reverberation which the sound engineer usually has no control over and things get even messier. There was one venue I used to do where the RT60 could be measured in weeks! Fortunately that building is gone now. > [@Pitchmeister](#): > > but you can’t change the speed of sound with a sound system. Indeed! Nor can you EQ a room without a bulldozer. That’s what happened to the room I mentioned above. Now the room is nearly perfectly flat and RT60 is what you’d expect in an open field 🙂 Just kidding. There is a new venue being built in the place of the old. I haven’t been in it yet but it HAS to be better than the old room. One other thing I forgot to mention in my previous comments… many times the performers will start the clapping by clapping their hands over their heads. This gives the audience a visual clue of the beat. Then when the performers go back to playing their instruments, the visual clue goes away and THAT’S when the clapping falls apart. But it still grinds my gears when the person sitting 3 feet away from me obviously hears the music at the same time that I do but can’t manage to clap on anything close to the beat. That was my original point. I guess different folks have different triggers. Don’t get me going on auto-tune. That should be its own thread 😄 ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2020, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922/37 "2020-12-29T05:56:39Z")
I am pretty sure it is like reverse parking a car in a car park - the only people that attempt it are those that can’t actually do it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-people-clap-in-time-at-concerts/928922.md?page=1)