# Why can't pitchers hit? (1989 Column) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 10, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876 "2013-10-10T15:29:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sjarlva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@sjarlva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjarlva)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/21 "2013-10-11T16:26:19Z")
Way back in 1966, I was a youngster in Atlanta listening to the Braves game when not only did Hank Aaron hit his 25th of 44 home runs that year, but the Braves pitcher Tony Cloninger set the still-current record of 9 RBIs by a pitcher and was the first player to hit 2 grand slams in a single game. For more details, visit [Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](http://voices.yahoo.com/tony-cloninger-nine-rbi-one-game-pitcher-511141.html). ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/22 "2013-10-11T16:27:47Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’d argue that running isn’t exactly a skill, and the differences in running and catching a football in no way compare to the differences between hitting and pitching. So I don’t think there is really a comparison here. You don’t think it’s a skill to be able to run fast? To be able to evade side to side, to be able to take a hit and keep going? Why do you think running backs are so important to the team? You think Emmitt Smith got famous for being slow and clumsy and falling down at the first bump? Okay, you don’t like running, try a different sport. What about Hockey? Ice skating and working the puck? Is a goalie evaluated on his stick skills? No, he spends much of his time right in front of the net, and his big job is stopping pucks. That means reading shots, reacting quickly. You just don’t ask the question about goalies being able to work the stick because they don’t have that as part of their job description. What if goalies had to spend half the game on the floor and half on the goal? Then you’d have an equivalent situation. You are correct that they are completely different skills, and there is no reason to think that someone good at one will be good at the other. But the point you miss is that both skills are nominally in his job description, by virtue of the sport. In theory-land, a well-balanced player in baseball needs to contribute to both sides of the game. The point that Cecil makes is that for a pitcher, his contribution on the mound is far more significant than his contribution at bat, so much that one of the leagues took the batting responsibility away from the pitcher. That’s why pitchers have weaker records than most other players. > [@](#): > > As for Cecil’s answer, perhaps the question was imprecise. If the actual intent of the question was to ask why pitchers are allowed to be such atrocious hitters, then Cecil nailed it. The question is rather imprecise, true. It could have meant “Why aren’t pitchers allowed to hit?” i.e., why the designated hitter rule? The answer is largely the same. But focusing on the fact that batting and pitching are very different skills doesn’t really address the question. Sure, that’s obvious, but it just spawns the question that Cecil answered. I mean, it’s not like asking why pitchers aren’t good figure skaters. That is two separate skill sets, but they have nothing in common, and figure skating has nothing to do with baseball. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Both true, but I think the point is that the conventional wisdom in baseball is that pitchers are not **expected** to be competent hitters any longer (if they ever really were), and so, a particular pitcher’s hitting ability will only be a small factor in a team’s evaluation of that pitcher’s skills. So, yes, it’s in the job description, but it’s so far down the list of skills in that description that it’s rarely, if ever, a factor. That is what Cecil and everyone else is saying. Jimmy knows that, he was pointing out why the question wasn’t stupid, not remaining clueless to the answer already stated. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/23 "2013-10-11T16:43:24Z")
> [@sjarlva](#): > > Way back in 1966, I was a youngster in Atlanta listening to the Braves game when not only did Hank Aaron hit his 25th of 44 home runs that year, but the Braves pitcher Tony Cloninger set the still-current record of 9 RBIs by a pitcher and was the first player to hit 2 grand slams in a single game. For more details, visit [Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](http://voices.yahoo.com/tony-cloninger-nine-rbi-one-game-pitcher-511141.html). [Sheer luck.](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clonito01.shtml) He was a .192BA/.277SLG hitter with 11 HR lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/24 "2013-10-11T16:56:34Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > The answer to the question is really easy and \*\*Glazer \*\*nailed it in post 11. Thank you. I was beginning to think the entire board had me on ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/25 "2013-10-11T17:02:59Z")
That’s me, apparently. > [@Peremensoe](#): > > So management always wants him to work on pitching. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/26 "2013-10-11T17:42:26Z")
Which are both restatements of what Cecil said in his column. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/27 "2013-10-11T17:46:04Z")
On top of the other factors, pitchers have far fewer at bats than other players. They’ll play in less than a quarter of the games, and for most pitchers not a full 9 innings either. In the AL they’ll rarely hit at all. Lack of experience adds to the other reasons they usually aren’t good hitters. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/28 "2013-10-11T17:56:17Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Which are both restatements of what Cecil said in his column. So you know Cecil was right (I posted before the column was linked). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/29 "2013-10-11T18:22:58Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I think it’s a relevant question, as hitting is part of baseball. The answer to the question is really easy and \*\*Glazer \*\*nailed it in post 11. Pitchers just don’t practice is as much as other position players. Hitting is not easy. > > It’s why centers are typically not as good at free throw shooting. They don’t practice shooting form nearly as much as they practice under the basket. There’s no physical reason why they couldn’t be good, they just don’t work at it as much. (Also in answer to **Glazer** ), this suggests that all that a pitcher or a center has to do is practice, practice, practice, and they will become good at hitting or free throw shooting, which I don’t buy. As for physical reasons, of course this is true in that we are all built basically the same, but the ability to use our bodies in certain ways is not inherently the same in all of us. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/30 "2013-10-11T18:42:45Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > But the point you miss is that both skills are nominally in his job description, by virtue of the sport. In theory-land, a well-balanced player in baseball needs to contribute to both sides of the game. The point that Cecil makes is that for a pitcher, his contribution on the mound is far more significant than his contribution at bat, so much that one of the leagues took the batting responsibility away from the pitcher. That’s why pitchers have weaker records than most other players. I don’t miss that point and I agree with Cecil that pitchers don’t need to be able to hit, therefore no one cares if they can or not. > [@](#): > > I mean, it’s not like asking why pitchers aren’t good figure skaters. That is two separate skill sets, but they have nothing in common, and figure skating has nothing to do with baseball. I’d say it’s very much like asking why pitchers aren’t good figure skaters. Suppose there was never a pitching position in baseball, and that t-ball was the norm, and there was another sport called pitching, in which the goal was to throw a ball as fast as you can through a hoop. Would anyone ever think to ask the question, “I wonder how good pitchers would be at hitting in the game of baseball?” I doubt it. It would make the same sense as asking why a pitcher can’t skate. I would like to add that the OP could have been worded better. Surely there is a reason, especially for someone new to baseball, to wonder why pitchers almost never get hits, which Cecil answered well, and as others have pointed out. I maintain, however, that as a skill in and of itself, there’s no big mystery here: it takes different abilities to do each. ETA: I put **Irishman** back in top quote which I had deleted. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/31 "2013-10-11T18:52:26Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > (Also in answer to **Glazer** ), this suggests that all that a pitcher or a center has to do is practice, practice, practice, and they will become good at hitting or free throw shooting, which I don’t buy. As for physical reasons, of course this is true in that we are all built basically the same, but the ability to use our bodies in certain ways is not inherently the same in all of us. I never meant to imply all players are the same. But with more practice they could become better. But with time being a limiting factor the more they practice batting the more their pitching would suffer. Most of the game is pitching and batting. There are fewer pitchers than batters so their importance is greater. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/32 "2013-10-11T18:57:12Z")
> [@Glazer](#): > > I never meant to imply all players are the same. I meant “the same” in that we all have the same physical parts. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/33 "2013-10-11T19:12:19Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > …but the ability to use our bodies in certain ways is not inherently the same in all of us. I was responding to this part. I see no reason that most pitchers can’t become as proficient as any other player that is chosen for their fielding expertise. But not necessarily as good as players chosen for batting talent. I’m just saying that time spent on batting practice takes away from pitching practice. And their talent at pitching trumps any skill with the stick. It’s nice to have a pitcher who’s not taken for granted at the plate. But that’s just a bonus. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/34 "2013-10-11T19:28:08Z")
> [@Glazer](#): > > I was responding to this part. I see no reason that most pitchers can’t become as proficient as any other player that is chosen for their fielding expertise. I’d say that on _average_, any player, or human being for that matter, would be expected to improve the same amount given the same amount of practice. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/35 "2013-10-11T19:42:59Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’d say that on _average_, any player, or human being for that matter, would be expected to improve the same amount given the same amount of practice. I’d disagree with that. No matter how much I practice a guitar I’m not going to get any better. Someone with talent would improve much more with less practice. I’ve never been lost. I know some people how can’t find their way out of a paper bag. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/36 "2013-10-11T20:16:58Z")
Right, this whole question has been about major-league players. As has been noted, essentially all of these guys were good hitters–maybe even the best on their teams–as kids. Some of them played in college or the low minors as hitters. They are already selected for _general_ baseball aptitude, before the question of position specialization and the particular skill refinement needed to climb the ladder come into it. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@Joe\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_King)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/37 "2013-10-11T20:42:20Z")
Cloninger [List of Major League Baseball single-game grand slam leaders - Wikipedia](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_hitters_with_two_grand_slams_in_one_game) rhe first pitcher not player. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/38 "2013-10-11T20:56:34Z")
> [@Glazer](#): > > I’d disagree with that. No matter how much I practice a guitar I’m not going to get any better. Someone with talent would improve much more with less practice. I’ve never been lost. I know some people how can’t find their way out of a paper bag. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. Yes, a person with talent would improve more. By “on average”, I meant that two people chosen at random would be expected to improve the same amount. But talent is the essence of my original argument. Some people have more talent at hitting, and there is no reason to think that a pitcher should have it just because he plays the same game with others that do have it. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/39 "2013-10-11T21:31:36Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I maintain, however, that as a skill in and of itself, there’s no big mystery here: it takes different abilities to do each. I don’t believe anyone questioned that they are two separate skills that use separate abilities. That seems to be the point you are making, but I think that was understood and obvious. The question had nothing to do with “why doesn’t learning to pitch make you a better batter?” and everything to do with “how come pitchers are allowed to have lousy batting records?” You seem to be asking “Why would anyone _expect_ pitchers to be good batters?” The answer to that question is “Because they are baseball players, and part of playing baseball is batting.” ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876/40 "2013-10-12T01:08:25Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > You seem to be asking “Why would anyone _expect_ pitchers to be good batters?” The answer to that question is “Because they are baseball players, and part of playing baseball is batting.” And nearly all of them were excellent hitters in Legion and High School ball, and many in college as well. They stopped working on their hitting to concentrate on pitching. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-pitchers-hit-1989-column/670876.md?page=3)