# Why can't priests have sex? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 17, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792 "2002-03-17T23:18:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/1 "2002-03-17T23:18:06Z")
Oh the directions this thread could take. Let’s at least attempt to stay on topic here. OK, why can’t they have sex? Why can’t they marry? Why nuns as well? Are there specific biblical passages which say they can’t? How do they justify breaking the commandment to “go forth and multiply”? The rationale seems to be that they are “serving a higher power.” But that doesn’t make sense. First, other religious leaders marry. Rabbis can and they are still perfectly able to lead a congregation in prayer. They still serve God while they tend to a family. But, more importantly, while priests and nuns won’t have sex and won’t marry they actively encourage it for their followers. They sometimes lead the ceremony which marries a couple! How can this be? If celebacy gives one a higher spiritual power shouldn’t priests endorse this life for everyone? If it is the right choice for them, indeed if it is the correct choice overall to not have sex and not marry, why would they partake in a ceremony designed to make two people lose the ability to fully support God? In short, which is the correct path: fully serving God or going forth and multiplying? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2002, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/2 "2002-03-17T23:39:21Z")
If by “priests” you mean Catholic priests, you should know that they weren’t **always** forbidden from getting married and having sex. Prior to the Second Lateran Council in 1139, Catholic clergy **could** marry. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/3 "2002-03-18T00:35:15Z")
I doubt any person, Catholic or otherwise, would deem celibacy to be on a “higher moral level” than Christian marriage. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/4 "2002-03-18T00:42:13Z")
I think St. Paul might disagree with that assessment. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/5 "2002-03-18T00:53:59Z")
Can’t find the cite (I looked) but within the past few days I read that celebacy is considered a discipline and not a virtue. (Chastity, on the other hand, which includes staying faithful to one’s spouse, is a virtue.) Celebacy was originally mandated in the middle ages, to prevent priests from handing down church property to their heirs. Celebacy can be justified for those whose dedication to the church doesn’t let them devote sufficient time or attention to their family. But, yeah, I say let 'em marry. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/6 "2002-03-18T01:01:06Z")
One reason is that today the church feels that a priest must devote his full attention to the church-that the Church is his bride, just as a nun is considered to be married to God-traditionally, nuns wear wedding bands. The priest must be able to devote his full time to his flock-I’m not saying he can’t have leisure, but the parish and the people are his children-that’s why we call priests, “Father”. A wife and children may distract him, thus, his highest calling is to aid us. A nun is devoted and married to God. She is devoted to charity works and helping the sick and the poor and the needy. Whether we agree with that or not, I’ve known some wonderful priests and nuns in my time. And I will completely disagree with anyone who suggest that celibacy is what is causing pedophilia among priests. That doesn’t account for the millions who do NOT molest children. I would think that the desire would have been there before. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/7 "2002-03-18T01:08:45Z")
In a bit of news that is probably giving Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger the shakes, it appears that the official diocesan newspaper of the Boston Archdiocese is asking the very same [questions](http://www.rcab.org/pilotstories/ps020315/Editorial.html). Do I think that the Pilot will come out whole heartedly in favor of optional celibacy? Nope. However, I do think it somewhat interesting that the paper (whose editor is Cardinal Bernard Law, of course) suggests that the issue is worth exploring at this particular time. (This kind of local level input is not welcomed by the Holy See) From what I read in other sources, the piece was NOT written by law, but rather some Monsignor (whose name escapes me…and the Boston Globe charges for archived articles) ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/8 "2002-03-18T01:12:50Z")
Many priests are also members of religious orders that practice celibacy. It is not only because they are priests that they must be celibate, but they are part of an order that demands celibacy for its members. Fully serving God or going forth and multiply are different paths to lead a good life. Not one is better than the other. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/9 "2002-03-18T01:23:07Z")
_The Catholic Encyclopedia_’s article on [Celibacy of the Clergy](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm) makes interesting reading. Somebody will correct me if I’m wrong, but I think there are already married priests in communion with Rome. Traditionally, married men have been allowed to be ordained in the Eastern Rite Churches. Since 1980 when the “Pastoral Provision” was promulgated by the Vatican, married Anglican clergy who convert to Catholicism can be ordained priests in the Anglican Rite Church, which is also in communion with Rome. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/10 "2002-03-18T01:36:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bibliophage \* > \*\*_The Catholic Encyclopedia_’s article on [Celibacy of the Clergy](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm) makes interesting reading. It’s also a bit dated (1908). The current catechism of the RCC speaks to the issue [here](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a6.htm) Note that the catechism does NOT rule out married priests at some time in the future (as it explicitly states that the ordination of women is “not possible”) > [@](#): > > VI. WHO CAN RECEIVE THIS SACRAMENT? > > 1577 "Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination."66 The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry.67 The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ’s return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.68 > > 1578 No one has a right to receive the sacrament of Holy Orders. Indeed no one claims this office for himself; he is called to it by God.69 Anyone who thinks he recognizes the signs of God’s call to the ordained ministry must humbly submit his desire to the authority of the Church, who has the responsibility and right to call someone to receive orders. Like every grace this sacrament can be received only as an unmerited gift. > > 1579 All the ordained ministers of the Latin Church, with the exception of permanent deacons, are normally chosen from among men of faith who live a celibate life and who intend to remain celibate "for the sake of the kingdom of heaven."70 Called to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord and to "the affairs of the Lord,"71 they give themselves entirely to God and to men. Celibacy is a sign of this new life to the service of which the Church’s minister is consecrated; accepted with a joyous heart celibacy radiantly proclaims the Reign of God.72 > > 1580 In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: while bishops are chosen solely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deacons and priests. This practice has long been considered legitimate; these priests exercise a fruitful ministry within their communities.73 Moreover, priestly celibacy is held in great honor in the Eastern Churches and many priests have freely chosen it for the sake of the Kingdom of God. In the East as in the West a man who has already received the sacrament of Holy Orders can no longer marry. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/11 "2002-03-18T01:55:28Z")
Well, I didn’t know that the no marriage rule had not always been in effect. Thanks for the info. Now, as to the point that priests cannot marry because families detract from their devotion to God, I addressed this in the OP. First, other religions allow their spiritual leaders to marry. Obviously their devotion doesn’t suffer because of it. This, in itself, isn’t significant though. The main point is that if they acknowledge that marriage lessens one’s devotion to God, and devotion to God is a fundemental aspect of the religion, then the members of that priest’s flock shouldn’t marry either. At the very least, the priests shouldn’t encourage marriage. They shouldn’t perform the ceremonies. Unless, of course, marriage really IS better in God’s eyes, making priests and nuns wrong in how to best commit themselves to their faith. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/12 "2002-03-18T02:08:00Z")
I found my cite: [http://www.salon.com/sex/feature/2002/03/16/kennedy/index.html](http://www.salon.com/sex/feature/2002/03/16/kennedy/index.html) . It’s an opinion piece by a former priest.: > [@](#): > > _From the article above_ Celibacy means the unmarried state. It has been a requirement for the Roman Catholic priesthood since the 10th century, when Pope St. Gregory the Great forced it on the clergy to end the abuse of their passing on church lands to their heirs. It has always been and is still considered a discipline rather than a virtue. Chastity is a virtue and applies not just to priests but to all men as a condition of their fidelity in their marital relationship. The priest appears to concur with **Guin** : > [@](#): > > How, then, do priests, forced to accept this condition, live it? In our in-depth study of priests (The Catholic Priest: Psychological Investigations, United States Catholic Conference, 1972) we learned that well-developed men observed the celibacy requirement with great fidelity. Yet these, the most mature of priests, did not live it as this sweetly singing virtue, as much as they adjusted to it as a bland circumstance of their service to their people. > > How did they adjust to it? The only way that priests adjust well to celibate living is through a network of strong supportive human relationships. At that time, the culture of the priesthood provided such relationships in the high-spirited fraternity that characterized their life together in rectories. Additional research at the time revealed that almost all successful celibates also had close nonsexual relationships with women, often with one of their sisters but just as often with a member of the parish – a mother and wife, perhaps, who welcomed the priest into her family life. > > Priests who were less well-developed displayed a range of maladjustments, ranging from an isolated bachelorhood to severe psychological conflicts. Celibacy, however, did not so much cause these problems as it brought them out in people who brought into seminaries their long-standing serious internal difficulties. I can’t vouch for the methodology of this 1972 study though, as I have not read it. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/13 "2002-03-18T02:17:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enderw24 \* > \*\* > The main point is that if they acknowledge that marriage lessens one’s devotion to God, and devotion to God is a fundemental aspect of the religion, then the members of that priest’s flock shouldn’t marry either. At the very least, the priests shouldn’t encourage marriage. They shouldn’t perform the ceremonies. Those who support mandatory priestly celibacy (at least the people I’ve heard speak on the topic) would argue that marriage does NOT lessen one’s devotion to God, but DOES impact on one’s ability to tend to the parishoners. I’m not aware of the specific pastoral duties of other religious leaders…do they compare in terms of time and committment with that of RCC priests? I’m not going to be an apologist for mandatory celibacy, but the sacramental duties of priests (several masses every weekend, confession, baptism, confirmation, hospital visits) on top of the administrative duties (often including running, or being involved in the administration of, a parish school) can be pretty steep. Additionally, the current trend in many places is for one priest to be farmed out to several parishes. I realize that one argument in favor of optional celibacy is that perhaps more priests would fill the ranks…reducing the overall workload per priest. That being said, I’m not sure that comparing the role of a priest with the role of a married lutheran pastor is comparing apples to apples. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/14 "2002-03-18T07:06:17Z")
As has been pointed out on several occasions (most recently by me [here (scroll to about the 9th post at 03-11-2002 08:38 AM)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103073&pagenumber=1) , celibacy in the priesthood dates to at least the second century, although mandatory celibacy did not become the absolute law of the Roman Rite church until the eleventh century. (Several Eastern Rite Catholic churches permit married clergy.) The two most common reasons given are - sex is bad (“of the flesh” and all that stuff) and - the priest should not be distracted from his parishoners by his family ties. Depending on the era and the speaker, one or the other of those two ideas carries the most weight. (Currently, no one–even in Rome–would hold that “sex is bad” without expecting to incur enormous ridicule.) This, of course, addresses marriage, not abstention from sex. However, it is pretty clear (regardless if it is ignored by either the clergy or laity) that the RCC is not a proponent of sex _outside_ marriage, so, in the eyes of the church, setting rules on marriage defines rules on sex. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/15 "2002-03-18T07:20:01Z")
The reason that Priests are celibate is because back before they were forced to take a vow of celibacy they had spouses and families, and when they died the family inherited his property. The church wanted that property. The church was losing significant amounts of resources to inheritance, so it started requiring that priests be celibate. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/16 "2002-03-18T07:22:04Z")
By the way, sisters are not really part of this discussion. Sisters are members of religious communities who choose celibacy and community life instead of family. Men do the same thing when they enter a religious order as brothers. (Just to complicate things, a man entering a religious order may choose to take vows as a brother or may choose to study to be a priest, but the issue in terms of religious orders (sisters, brothers, or priests), is that they have chosen the religious community in place of family.) Now, if the church ever stumbles into the future and permits women to be ordained priests, any non-religious-order women priests will be under the same current discipline of celibacy as men who are _secular_ or _bishop’s_ priests and we can worry about whether they should be permitted to marry. Members of religious orders (priests, brothers/friars/monks, sisters/nuns) are unlikely to every marry because of their separate commitment to the order, not because of Vatican-imposed rules regarding celibacy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/17 "2002-03-18T07:25:34Z")
**Sam Stone** , check out my post in the linked thread. The family inheritance issue was a fairly late development and had more to do with local dukes and kings than the family parish. Celibacy had been around for over 800 years before it even became an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2002, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/18 "2002-03-18T18:11:48Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not going to be an apologist for mandatory celibacy, but the sacramental duties of priests (several masses every weekend, confession, baptism, confirmation, hospital visits) on top of the administrative duties (often including running, or being involved in the administration of, a parish school) can be pretty steep. How, then, do Anglican and Lutheran priests, the majority of whom are married, manage to carry that load? For the record, although the Episcopal Church has never required clerical celibacy since shortly after its separation from Rome, there are a fair number of Anglican priests who are vowed to celibacy – because they are members of religious orders. The Society of St. Francis maintains houses of friars (most of whom are also priests) in NYC and San Francisco, as well as a number of locations in England, Africa, and Oceania. The Society of St. John the Evangelist (Cowley Fathers) is, IIRC, completely composed of celibate priest/brothers. On the other hand, my own parish has dealt quite effectively with the problems priests have in dealing with the demands of parish and family by calling a woman as our rector and her husband as her assistant. (We have another priest in the parish who is a full-time English professor at the local university who covers for them when they need time off – and customarily take it together.) ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/19 "2002-03-19T00:49:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > How, then, do Anglican and Lutheran priests, the majority of whom are married, manage to carry that load? Good question. As I hinted at earlier, my knowledge of RCC clerical duties is greater than my knowledge of protestant clerical duties. At first blush, it appears that it’s not an apples to apples comparison. I’m not in the camp of mandatory celibacy, however…so I’m not really interested in “defending” that position per se, just that I can understand the point being raised. IMHO, the nose of the elephant is already under the optional celibacy tent anyway. Allowing former Espiscopalian priests to remain married when they become RCC priests, and the recognition of the tradition of married priests in other rites of the Catholic church suggest that this is a tradition that could evolve (albeit, slowly) in my lifetime…I’m not holding my breath on female RCC clergy, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2002, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792/20 "2002-03-19T00:56:18Z")
I have to ask-haven’t some of the Latin rite priests complained, or voiced disapproval of the fact that the Anglican and Byzantine rite priests may be married-while they cannot? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-priests-have-sex/98792.md?page=2)