# Why can't Spider-Man be black? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 27, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704 "2010-06-27T20:07:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/41 "2010-06-28T00:55:57Z")
Don’t confuse art with commerce. Hollywood can no longer afford to make a picture unless it makes money. As other posters have said, comic book fans, the target group don’t like things that mess with the storyline reality. So in order to make a black or Asian or even wheelchair Peter Parker, you would have to surrender that target group and be certain to that another target group would make up the audience. Look at Halle Berry in Catwoman. Whether she was black or white or green the story was a total mess and the film irritated succeded in one thing. Making EVERYONE who saw it mad. Gone are the days when people would pay to see a movie with Halle Berry in a tight costume. Sure she’s great to look at, but I can look at her for free on the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/42 "2010-06-28T01:09:56Z")
[People are always forgetting about Uncle Ben…](http://joeshands1.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/old-ben5.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Mann\_Slaughter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@Mann\_Slaughter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mann_Slaughter)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/43 "2010-06-28T01:58:29Z")
There IS a Black “Spider-Man”. Has been since 1981. How do I know? Cause I created him: [Monkey-Man](http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs177.snc1/6680_103906061975_621316975_2618979_6240323_n.jpg) I’ve always been a HUGE Spider-Fan, and described my super-heroic alter ego as “Spider-Man with a tail”. They have very similar powers: The ability to cling to most surfaces; Super-strength; and heightened speed and agility. Originally MM even had Spidey’s snarky humor, but that was dropped in the late-80’s for a darker, more brooding personality. In regards to the OP: The fanboys would be livid, and simply refuse to accept the change in Spidey’s race. No real biggie, since those fans are generally a small portion of the movie-going public. However, I feel that same public would be unwilling to accept the change of such an established, iconic hero as Spider-Man. (Note the hyphen, and capitalized “Man”. It’s Spider HYPHEN Man, NOT Spiderman. That one always gets me going. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/44 "2010-06-28T02:04:08Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > [People are always forgetting about Uncle Ben…](http://joeshands1.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/old-ben5.jpg) And after Uncle Ben is killed, she would be a Black Widow. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/45 "2010-06-28T02:25:54Z")
> [@Mann\_Slaughter](#): > > There IS a Black “Spider-Man”. Has been since 1981. How do I know? Cause I created him: > > [Monkey-Man](http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs177.snc1/6680_103906061975_621316975_2618979_6240323_n.jpg) Seriously? You named a black character Monkey-Man? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/46 "2010-06-28T02:28:48Z")
Spider-Man can’t be black for the same reason _I_ can’t be. Because he’s not. And I’m not. You can hire a black actor to play me in my eventual bio-pic, but it’d be an inaccuracy. As long as it’s not Damon Wayans. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/47 "2010-06-28T02:50:28Z")
Spider-Man was black for awhile. After an incident in a bell tower, he went back to being red. Seriously though, Peter Parker is not black. A black Spider-Man would only not be a problem if it was another guy other than Parker. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/48 "2010-06-28T02:55:35Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Spider-Man can’t be black for the same reason _I_ can’t be. Because he’s not. And I’m not. > > You can hire a black actor to play me in my eventual bio-pic, but it’d be an inaccuracy. You are a real person. Peter Parker is not. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/49 "2010-06-28T02:56:24Z")
> [@Mann\_Slaughter](#): > > There IS a Black “Spider-Man”. Has been since 1981. How do I know? Cause I created him: > > [Monkey-Man](http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs177.snc1/6680_103906061975_621316975_2618979_6240323_n.jpg) > > I’ve always been a HUGE Spider-Fan, and described my super-heroic alter ego as “Spider-Man with a tail”. They have very similar powers: The ability to cling to most surfaces; Super-strength; and heightened speed and agility. Originally MM even had Spidey’s snarky humor, but that was dropped in the late-80’s for a darker, more brooding personality. > > In regards to the OP: The fanboys would be livid, and simply refuse to accept the change in Spidey’s race. No real biggie, since those fans are generally a small portion of the movie-going public. However, I feel that same public would be unwilling to accept the change of such an established, iconic hero as Spider-Man. > > (Note the hyphen, and capitalized “Man”. It’s Spider HYPHEN Man, NOT Spiderman. That one always gets me going. 😉 ) Nice stealth bragging, but the question was in regards to a Spider-Man movie. ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/50 "2010-06-28T03:08:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You are a real person. Peter Parker is not. That’s the crux of the issue. The fanbase doesn’t see it that way. Spider-Man’s basic characteristics have been established, (as much as a real person), and any deviation from that would require justification, rightly or wrongly. If the producer of the next Spider-Man film chooses a black lead they’re going to be spending as much time justifying that decision as they are actually promoting the movie. That is the sole reason it won’t happen in a multi-million dollar project. It’s feasible but it would require some ground work to be laid first. Such as the Sam Jackson version of Nick Fury in an actual comic. If someone questions the portrayal they can whip out the comic for justification. Nothing like that exists for Spider-Man on a commercially successful level. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/51 "2010-06-28T03:23:38Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You are a real person. Peter Parker is not. But Peter Parker is a well known established character whom people have visually based preconceived notions of. You _could_ make a black Spider Man (although I suspect Stan Lee needs to approve casting and I’m guessing he wouldn’t, but it wouldn’t meet the preconceived notions of Spiderman, and therefore it would have to be a kick ass movie to overcome the discontinuity for the audience. Generally when people have an ideal in mind about a character, and you manage to cast someone different (Timothy Dalton as James Bond), it isn’t terribly successful. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/52 "2010-06-28T03:28:33Z")
> [@](#): > > My wife responded that virtually every fictional hero, from King Arthur to Sherlock Holmes to James Bond, has been described or portrayed as white I think your wife has managed to somehow remain unaware of the great majority of the world’s rich literary history. Just because she only reads books about white people doesn’t mean that the majority of fictional heroes are white. > [@](#): > > Glowing Disc replied that, again, that sealed off thousands of years of fictional characters from ever being anything but Caucasian. Race is a part of a character’s identity, and depending on the story, it might even be an essential plot element, or an unavoidable consequence of the character’s regional and cultural background. Anyway, believe me, there’s a nearly limitless well of global fiction throughout history with little or no white people making an appearance. Trying to ‘colorize’ some popular stories starring white people does the world a great disservice by continuing to ignore the wonderful bounty of fantastic stories that already exist by and/or about people of color. > [@](#): > > So, what’s the point? she was asked. If nothing in the story changes, why does it matter that he’s black? I agree, if nothing changes, what’s the point? It runs the risk of simply being a gimmick. I’m not fundamentally against that sort of thing - “What If” stories can be really great, but then the story should really try to make the most of the alternate premise. And even then, I don’t think a black Peter Parker has enough story potential in it to carry a movie. At best, it would make a clever issue of a comic book, or at best, a graphic novel. You might get some more mileage out of a black Spiderman, but there’s already a Hispanic and an Indian and a Woman Spidey - why not use them? I don’t think Peter Parker has been mythologized long enough ago to start messing with fundamental aspects of his identity, and I think he’s too well known for it not to distract people from being absorbed into the movie. Lest one think this is limited to ‘important’ issue like race or gender, I similarly found the Constantine adaptation to be severely lacking because the blonde hair and British accent and cleverness were so fundamental to that character that rebranding him as an American with dark hair played by anti-intellectual Keanu Reeves just didn’t work. There was a [great debate](http://io9.com/5552684/donald-glover-for-spider+man-why-the-hell-not) over on io9 about whether they should cast Don Glover (he’s a black comedy actor) in the new Spidey movie. Here’s what I said there: > [@](#): > > Spiderman has certain iconographic qualities that might qualify him for re-originization and/or re-racialisation. But Peter Parker does not (Spiderman: India be damned). I guess it comes down to where it falls along the spectrum of Platonic ideals. Spiderman, like Green Lantern and Blue Beetle (although it seems like this phenomenon might only be applicable in the DC universe) might be subject to new identities under the mask, but changing the fundamental nature of the identity _under_ the mask is another thing entirely. Sure, Peter Parker isn’t real, but neither is Captain Ahab, or Aladdin. If you’re going to change the underlying more specific identity, rather than the iconic one, well…1) it’s less original (translation is less interesting than translocation) and 2) it’s not as marketable in BIG media like major motion picture (try graphic novel or indy film maybe). > > If you’re going to change such an innate aspect as racial background, you might as well change everything else too. > > I would say that ‘whiteness’ is as integral to Peter Parker as any other aspect of him. But it’s not as integral to “Spiderman” since there have been both other Spider heroes and alternate Spidermen in Marvel history, as well as more fluidity of identity with regard to “super” identity in the DC universe. > > I’m all for color blind casting, I just think it’s very hard to do with adaptations. And it’s not race per se, it’s just image. Think of how distracting a blonde Superman would be. Or a Batman with a mustache. > > You could do a black Peter Parker, but either it’s not integral to the story, in which case it’s either just kind of odd and distracting, or it comes of as a subtle art flick - or it’s integral to the story in which case in comes off as a “What If/Earth 23/Elseworlds” tale which is more suited to a graphic novel than a commercial film. At best, it’s done really well, but again comes across as as an art flick. > > It just has too great a chance of either being really cheesy or too arty, neither of which is commercial. > > A black Spiderman with an original secret identity would be less distracting and would have greater chance to both avoid cheese and have commercial possibility. > > The best idea is just to create more new kick-ass completely original non-white superheroes with names that aren’t racial puns. > > Another issue here is that the DC Universe is a lot more friendly to legacy characters than Marvel. There’s multiple Starmen, Blue Beetles, Batsiblings, etc. Whereas Marvel tends to be more conservative with their spinoffs and protégés. And DC also seems to be trying harder to diversify the racial makeup of these new characters. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/53 "2010-06-28T03:30:01Z")
_ **Peter Parker** _ cannot be black. Spider man can, but Peter Parker can’t. And to me, spider man has to be Peter Parker, period. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/54 "2010-06-28T03:43:52Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > What about Catwoman? Yeah, but that movie sucked. To the point of unintentional comedy. Do you really want to use that as an example? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/55 "2010-06-28T04:10:06Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Yeah, but that movie sucked. To the point of unintentional comedy. Do you really want to use that as an example? Psst. Eartha Kitt. Rrrrowl! And in that case, all that was essential in Catwoman was preserved. The sensualness, the felinicity. For Kingpin, all that matters is the brains, the brawn, and the position. Michael Clark Duncan was perfectly fine there. Great casting. For Two-Face… well, the studio bought Billy Dee Williams out of the part, which he took because he _really_ wanted to play Two-Face. I think he could have done it, but it might have appeared racist: instead of a green half-face, the most distinctive makeup would have been lightening his skin. For Spider-Man, if you’re keeping Peter Parker, making him black changes his family dynamic and personal character, because he is who he is: the New Yorker. Changing his race makes him a different sort of New Yorker. Which is fine. But it’s not Peter Parker, and it’d be simpler to create a new secret identity for the character. At which point, why are you dealing with Spidey anyhow? Make something entirely new. Static was explicitly a black Spider-Man, and he supported a TV series, a couple comic series, and even wound up making cameos in the JLA cartoon years later. (Note: Static did not have powers anything like Spidey. That didn’t stop him from being a black Spider-Man, which is the point here: it’s about character and situation, not the costume. That’s the Mighty Marvel Manner.) ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/56 "2010-06-28T04:20:37Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > You might get some more mileage out of a black Spiderman, but there’s already a Hispanic and an Indian and a Woman Spidey - why not use them? Multiple woman Spideys, even. But of those, the closest I can think of to being movie material is Spider-Girl, Peter Parker’s daughter, and even she’s not really an option until they stop dismantling the Peter/MJ relationship every movie. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/57 "2010-06-28T04:30:53Z")
> [@jack davinci"](#): > > I’m all for color blind casting, I just think it’s very hard to do with adaptations. And it’s not race per se, it’s just image. Think of how distracting a blonde Superman would be. Or a Batman with a mustache. For me, they wouldn’t be distracting at all. This is exactly the thought process I would have: Them: Superman has blonde hair/Batman has a mustache Me: 'Kay. I still think if you’re hung up on this Peter Parker has to be white thing, you’re being needlessly picayune. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/58 "2010-06-28T05:59:17Z")
Would the experiences of a poor black teen in New York be identical to the experiences of a poor white teen in New York? Would they have the same outlook on life? The same friends? The same challenges? In other words, would they be the same person? Probably not. And for flatter, stock characters (Kingpin, for example), that’s not an issue, but Peter Parker has a bit more psychology behind him. Change his race, and you change who he is. Not to mention, in comics, the look of a character tends to be doubly important compared with non-illustrated literature, because the same character can be very different from continuity to continuity. Ultimate universe Spider man does not act just like Marvel Adventures Spiderman, who doesn’t act just like movie Spiderman, but we always know that the young, thin, wiry white guy hanging upsidedown and punning is Peter Parker. Those character markers are important. The other day, I read some grumbles from some fans about how the new Avenger book was all well and good, but why was the artist drawing Tony Stark a few inches too tall - and with brown eyes, when everyone knows Tony Stark’s eyes are blue OMGWTF!? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/59 "2010-06-28T11:37:08Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Because a culturally white, but black Peter Parker would not be plausible for his origin story. In order to have a black guy from New York who has a ton of money problems, you’d have to portray him as being a street kid. For him to have adapted to white culture, you’d have to make him more affluent. Or have him live with white people, and spend a bunch of time explaining that rather than getting to the story. Slight hijack, but Kurt Busiek’s approach in ASTRO CITY was to give the (black) Spider-Man analogue _ **no** _ superpowers: he’s just a quick-thinking acrobat who serves as the delivery system for all the nonlethal weapons that got developed _ **out-of-pocket,** _ sure as his gear also helps that achingly responsible quipster pull off his otherwise impossible leaps. Anyhow, he first took up superheroing when he realized his employer was crooked in general and putting his projects to nefarious use in particular… ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/60 "2010-06-28T11:57:43Z")
I think it would be perfectly feasible. Just cast a black actor and don’t mention it. Not even an in-joke. It would just be a black guy playing the character. Hell, Denzel Washington pulled off playing the Duke in ‘Much Ado About Nothing’ and he was brilliant at it. As an aside, Lady Chance has long been an advocate of this for James Bond. Just cast regardless of race and see what happened. If they’re going to swap out actors every few movies anyway they might as well get playful with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704.md?page=4)