# Why can't Spider-Man be black? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 27, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704 "2010-06-27T20:07:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/61 "2010-06-28T11:59:49Z")
Because his man-crush on Luke Cage would look inexplicably gayer? Because the humiliations he endured as a high school student just plain didn’t include getting hassled by cops, doormen and Korean grocery merchants. Being Black means having endured very specific cultural hardships, and Peter Parker endured a very different set. The current Amazing Spider-Man storyline is about the numerous other people who have gotten sucked into the Spider-Man lifestyle (Clones, symbiotes, people who happen to have gotten spider-related powers). Have a Black guy find the symbiote suit or get bitten by a different radioactive spider. There’s a reason this character clicked and a hundred others didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![\_cc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e19b73/32.png) [@\_cc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_cc)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/62 "2010-06-28T12:19:12Z")
> [@Flying\_Saucer](#): > > I don’t understand this. Why is it all about what the audience expects? Why can’t we change their expectations? Subvert them? Overcome them? Because Hollywood movies are multi-hundred-million dollar enterprises, and trying to subvert an audience on an artistic whim is a multi-hundred-million-dollar risk. Can a black actor portray Peter Parker well? I’m certain there are those who could. Would Hollywood be able to get it right? Nothing’s guaranteed there, but my gut says it’s unlikely. But even if they made the best possible black Spiderman ever, would a movie starring a black Spiderman ultimately make less total box office profits than a movie starring a white Spiderman? Sadly, I have no doubt it would. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/63 "2010-06-28T12:26:54Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Psst. Eartha Kitt. Rrrrowl! And in that case, all that was essential in Catwoman was preserved. The sensualness, the felinicity. :smack: And she’s my favorite Catwoman, yet! I think I was fixated on “movies” and forgot about “TV”. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/64 "2010-06-28T12:39:00Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Fans would go apeshit because they’re messing with the story. This isn’t really a racial thing. People seem fine with Samuel L. Jackson playing Nick Fury, because the reboot of his character (by Marvel) changed his ethnicity (incidentally, the character’s appearance was based upon Jackson, so he’s essentially playing himself). The original portrayal was by the Hoff. Pedantic nitpicking hijack: I am going to assume you meant that Jackson served as model for the movie character, since when Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos first hit the stands in January 1962, Samuel L was only a month past his 14th birthday meaning that Jack and Stan would have had to have had him model for the part of a hardbitten WWII Army sergeant at 13. Not that he couldn’t have pulled it off, but still… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/65 "2010-06-28T12:53:51Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Pedantic nitpicking hijack: I am going to assume you meant that Jackson served as model for the movie character No, he served as model for the [Ultimate Universe Nick Fury](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Nick_Fury) years before the current crop of Marvel movies. (The Ultimates, where he was drawn to resemble Jackson, came out in 2002. His first appearance, in 2001, he looked very different.) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/66 "2010-06-28T13:10:11Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Hell, Denzel Washington pulled off playing the Duke in ‘Much Ado About Nothing’ and he was brilliant at it. He may have been, I can’t tell since I saw it dubbed in the theater in Spain and people were totally hung up on “why was that black actor playing that role? It made no sense!” I managed to calm a bunch of dear old ladies down by pointing out that maybe it was a nod to traditional casting, where they did things like have The Girl played by a boy, or use blackface… but there was much grumbling and grunting and gnashing of teeth. Much Ado About Nothing is artsy; in most of the world, straight to Cineclub. Spidey is just the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/67 "2010-06-28T13:37:42Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > For me, they wouldn’t be distracting at all. This is exactly the thought process I would have: > Them: Superman has blonde hair/Batman has a mustache > Me: 'Kay. Them: And we’re adding nipples to the costume Me: Nuke them from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/68 "2010-06-28T13:55:38Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Generally when people have an ideal in mind about a character, and you manage to cast someone different (Timothy Dalton as James Bond), it isn’t terribly successful. Daniel Craig. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/69 "2010-06-28T14:14:11Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > :smack: > > And she’s my favorite Catwoman, yet! I think I was fixated on “movies” and forgot about “TV”. So apparently I’m the ONLY Internet geek who was underwhelmed by Eartha Kitt as Catwoman? Julie Newmar was much, much better. Hell, even Lee Merriweather as better. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/70 "2010-06-28T14:41:59Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > _ **Peter Parker** _ cannot be black. > > Spider man can, but Peter Parker can’t. > > And to me, spider man has to be Peter Parker, period. Agreed. The only way Spider-Man is black is if Peter Parker is white, undergoes a transformation to gain powers, also taking on the black coloration of the spider, and then is portrayed by a black actor. So a white actor portrays Peter Parker in the beginning and a black actor takes over in the middle. But that screws up the story so much that the actor might as well as well be Ludacris, cause the movie would be, too. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/71 "2010-06-28T14:54:54Z")
Patrick Stewart has played Othello (against an all-black cast), but that was admittedly a bit of a stunt. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/72 "2010-06-28T15:15:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > So apparently I’m the ONLY Internet geek who was underwhelmed by Eartha Kitt as Catwoman? > > Julie Newmar was much, much better. Hell, even Lee Merriweather as better. Agreed wholeheartedly (although I personally preferred Lee over Julie). ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/73 "2010-06-28T15:20:29Z")
> [@Flying\_Saucer](#): > > Kevin Costner is an American from California. He’s not English and not a noble, but he _played_ one as an actor. Why couldn’t a black actor play an English noble? I would say that Costner is an argument against your point. In every role he is a guy with a flat American accent. He destroys any role that is not an American with a flat American accent. Hell, even in Waterworld, you wonder how he got that accent, since American is underwater. This is, of course, only my opinion. I am apparently not a big Costner fan. I’d love to see **Skald** as Spidey though. Webslinging powers _and_ flying radioactive monkeys. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/74 "2010-06-28T15:30:41Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > So apparently I’m the ONLY Internet geek who was underwhelmed by Eartha Kitt as Catwoman? > > Julie Newmar was much, much better. Hell, even Lee Merriweather as better. Julie Newmar had better scripts - by the time Eartha was Kattwoman, _Batman_ had fallen off that thin-as-gossamer tightrope of successful self-parody. Both of them just stone-cold \*owned \*that catsuit, though. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/75 "2010-06-28T15:43:11Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > So apparently I’m the ONLY Internet geek who was underwhelmed by Eartha Kitt as Catwoman? Nope. We finally agree on something ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/76 "2010-06-28T17:38:10Z")
Julie Newmar _was_ Catwoman - the real Catwoman. All other Catwomen are actors in catsuits. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/77 "2010-06-28T17:38:36Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Because the humiliations he endured as a high school student just plain didn’t include getting hassled by cops, doormen and Korean grocery merchants. Being Black means having endured very specific cultural hardships, and Peter Parker endured a very different set. This is my main problem with it. For all the progress we’ve made on race relations in the U.S., a Black kid is going to have a very different experience growing up from a white kid, even if they come from the same city and the same economic group. Peter Parker is kind of like an advanced car, only instead of biodiesel or batteries, he runs on Guilt with a capital G. When you come from the dominant class of a society (white men), it’s a lot easier to feel responsible for everything and everyone. > [@Tengu](#): > > No, he served as model for the [Ultimate Universe Nick Fury](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Nick_Fury) years before the current crop of Marvel movies. (The Ultimates, where he was drawn to resemble Jackson, came out in 2002. His first appearance, in 2001, he looked very different.) There was even a scene where they sat around talking about who would play them in a film. Also note that the Ultimate universe Nick Fury is definitely a different person from the mainstream Marvel Fury. He’s not just the standard Fury with different facial features and a recolor. When I went to see the first _Iron Man_ film, a friend had told me I should be sure to stay through the credits. When I heard Jackson’s voice coming out of the darkness, I had to almost clap a hand over my mouth to retrain myself from shouting _HOLY SHIT NO WAY YOU DID NOT!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/78 "2010-06-28T17:42:24Z")
Wasn’t Bruce Wayne portrayed in the comics as having dark hair? It bothered me a _little_ when he was portrayed by a less dark-haired actor, like Adam West or Michael Keaton, but I got over it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/79 "2010-06-28T17:48:29Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Agreed wholeheartedly (although I personally preferred Lee over Julie). Lee was better looking; Newmar was sexier. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704/80 "2010-06-28T17:50:06Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > I would say that Costner is an argument against your point. In every role he is a guy with a flat American accent. He destroys any role that is not an American with a flat American accent. Hell, even in Waterworld, you wonder how he got that accent, since American is underwater. > > This is, of course, only my opinion. I am apparently not a big Costner fan. > > I’d love to see **Skald** as Spidey though. Webslinging powers _and_ flying radioactive monkeys. But then wouldn’t the answer to the Daily Bugle headline _Spider-Man: Threat or Menace?_ be _Both. Also, you forgot feckless wanker, Jameson!_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-spider-man-be-black/544704.md?page=5)