# Why can't the FBI just trace every phone inside the capitol building during the coup attempt **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069 "2021-01-08T22:03:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/41 "2021-01-10T14:03:13Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > … the people who bear the most responsibility for inciting and driving the rebellion. … Actually, that part is trivial. It was Trump. 😉 It’s the intermediate ones who will be, as you say, difficult to pick out of the crowd. OTOH, one of the features of mobs in general is that they often aren’t really led. Once a group of vaguely like-minded people show up in one location, so called “mob psychology” takes over. Like a more sophisticated version of bird’s flocking behavior, everyone takes their cues from the surrounding people and waves of different behavior, be that violent or peaceful, just spread spontaneously through the crowd. Which is also why a tiny cadre of _agents provocatuers_ can be so effective. They can deliberately trigger very specific behaviors in the vastly larger crowd by being a critical mass of common behavior in one or two small clusters. That speaks to the events after the group was assembled and began marching towards the Capitol. How that particular list of individuals happened to show up that day may be much more amenable to identifying the movers and shakers who made it so. Or maybe not, and the “blame” lies entirely with the amorphous nature of the R.E.T.C.H. : > [@What's next for the pro-insurrectionists?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/53): > > > [@What's next for the pro-insurrectionists?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/52): > > > > The CEC has poisoned their minds. > > “CEC”? > [@What's next for the pro-insurrectionists?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/54): > > Conservative Entertainment Complex. Led by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck. > [@What's next for the pro-insurrectionists?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/55): > > … > But it should be the “Reactionary Entertainment Complex”. Those folks left “conservative” some time back around 1985. 1990 at the latest. There is _nothing_ left of conservatism in their messages or their spokespeople. > [@What's next for the pro-insurrectionists?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-next-for-the-pro-insurrectionists/929994/56): > > Now it should be the Reactionary Entertainment Trump’s Complex of Hate. > > R.E.T.C.H. for short… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/42 "2021-01-10T14:37:53Z")
Fair point. I was thinking that after the first couple, it would be tedious. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/43 "2021-01-10T18:40:28Z")
Note also that a cop was killed as part of this–hit with a fire extinguisher. While I doubt any DA would take this proposal seriously, _in theory_, I conclused that everyone involved in that attack could be charged with capital (Capitol? sorry…) murder. So once the Fibbies find that your phone was there and get you in a room, they’ll start talking about how Sicknick’s murder puts YOU on the hook, and how long do you think it will take after that before they start getting some useful intel from some of the dweebs who were just along for the ride? LE is very good at this game. They hold all the cards. Plus, of course, see [Prisoner's dilemma - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/44 "2021-01-10T19:23:56Z")
I just hope they are as aggressive pursuing these domestic terrorists, as they were at depriving people of middle eastern appearance/names/connections of their civil liberties post 9/11. All the hinky crap we libtards were complaining about in terms of no-cause warrants and surveillance issued by secret tribunals should provide plenty of opportunities for law and order conservatives to go after these dangerous people. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/45 "2021-01-10T20:43:32Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I just hope they are as aggressive pursuing these domestic terrorists, as they were at depriving people of middle eastern appearance/names/connections of their civil liberties post 9/11. All the hinky crap we libtards were complaining about in terms of no-cause warrants and surveillance issued by secret tribunals should provide plenty of opportunities for law and order conservatives to go after these dangerous people… **Moderating** I’m just citing this last post as an example, but many other posts in this thread are not appropriate to GQ or relevant to the OP. **Going forward, please confine your posts to the technical aspects of tracing phones. This thread is not about assigning criminal culpability, the psychology of mobs, or political issues. Limit your responses to factual information directly related to the OP.** Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/46 "2021-01-10T23:35:04Z")
Sorry - lost track of which threads were in which forums. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/47 "2021-01-11T00:31:14Z")
> [@phs3](#): > > Phones don’t have “location beacons”. There are two ways a phone can be located: > > 1. By which towers it pings off of > 2. By GPS data collected by the phone There are more than two. Location can be determined by bluetooth and wifi as well. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/48 "2021-01-11T00:52:37Z")
Ah, true. I tend not to think of those, apparently! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/49 "2021-01-11T00:56:04Z")
Inertial tracking, too. In fact, as I understand it, most of a phone’s location data, in a city, actually comes from wifi and inertial, not GPS. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/50 "2021-01-11T01:24:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In fact, as I understand it, most of a phone’s location data, in a city, actually comes from wifi and inertial, not GPS. Indoor tracking will use WiFi or Bluetooth unless the building has microcells. Outdoors, GPS if there’s a clear view to the sky and WiFi if not. In either case, inertial sensors are fused with the coarse location data to increase precision. But they drift quickly and need constant updates from something that can do absolute positioning. In some cases, the phones themselves act as beacons. You can get little location trackers that only have Bluetooth. If a nearby phone senses one of these tags, it will note this (along with its own location) to the network. Then, the owner of the tag can query that location. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/51 "2021-01-11T02:10:36Z")
Apologies if this has already been discussed, but ISTM that cell coverage within the capitol building may not be worth a shit. The building is made of brick, sandstone, and marble, and the dome is made of iron. Thus, the picocell brought up by @phs3 in post #38 could be a very real possibility. It looked to me like every one of those rioters was having no trouble with phone coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/52 "2021-01-11T14:13:10Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > It looked to me like every one of those rioters was having no trouble with phone coverage. Apparently many were having trouble: > **[Why Cell Networks Cut Out at the US Capitol Riot](https://www.pcmag.com/opinions/why-cell-networks-cut-out-at-the-us-capitol-riot)** > > As the mob descended on the US Capitol complex yesterday, did law enforcement jam cell signals to thwart communication? No, the networks were probably just overwhelmed. Here's why. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/53 "2021-01-11T15:13:12Z")
Good article, thanks. Although the focus of this article is mostly on outside of the building. And I was referring to the rioters inside that were merrily filming their fellow mobsters. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/54 "2021-01-11T15:15:14Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > inside What I _think_ remains unresolved is if there Capitol has repeaters in it like many other nearby buildings do. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/55 "2021-01-11T15:26:18Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > What I _think_ remains unresolved is if there Capitol has repeaters in it like many other nearby buildings do. I would assume that it does, but obviously I don’t know that for certain. I have not been able to find out via Google. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/56 "2021-01-11T16:07:18Z")
[Every Deleted Parler Post, Many With Users’ Location Data, Has Been Archived](https://gizmodo.com/every-deleted-parler-post-many-with-users-location-dat-1846032466) 56 terabytes, public domained. Includes lots of GPS with posts. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/57 "2021-01-11T21:16:38Z")
apparently the process is called go-fencing and has probably already been done. > **[Insurrectionists’ social media presence gives feds an easy way to ID them](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/insurrectionists-social-media-presence-gives-feds-an-easy-way-to-id-them/)** > > You don't need fancy technology to identify folks who livestream their crimes. > Neither would an agency need actual photos or footage to track down any mob participant who was carrying a mobile phone. Law enforcement agencies have also developed a habit in recent years of using so-called geofence warrants to compel companies such as Google to provide lists of all mobile devices that appeared within a certain geographic area during a given time frame. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/58 "2021-01-11T21:34:00Z")
How in the world could that archive be 56 terabytes? Unless that’s all deleted posts on the platform, not just those from that day? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/59 "2021-01-11T21:40:21Z")
Pretty sure it’s every “deleted” post ever. Social media sites don’t really ever delete anything (well, maybe some privacy-focused ones do); they just tag the posts as non-visible. Still, 56 TB ain’t that much. It’s only that little because Parler is tiny. YouTube gets ~1000 TB uploaded per day. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069/60 "2021-01-11T22:20:11Z")
56TB may not be much, but I’d still need to buy another drive or two. They’ve probably got in a cloud somewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-fbi-just-trace-every-phone-inside-the-capitol-building-during-the-coup-attempt/930069.md?page=4)