# Why can't the Shinkansen (Bullet trains) work anywhere else in the world? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417 "2010-11-12T14:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/121 "2010-11-19T18:15:04Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Really? That’s (from an American perspective) such a _short_ distance. To compare: we’re used to multiday road trips, whereby the travel constitutes an actual part of the vacation. But travelling by train is much more relaxing and better part of vacation with a train than with a car, too! You don’t have to drive yourself, you can nap, eat, watch TV, read, walk around inside the train… why spend hours in a car? I meant that because it’s short it’s good for regional trains. Going longer distances by car is again, only if you are transporting a lot of stuff (and even then I’ve managed to haul a lot around on a train), or if you want to be indepent at your end point. And even then, there’s the alternative of taking the Auto train (with your car on board) from Munich to Hamburg, or renting a car in Hamburg and driving around the region. I know that 6 hrs. with the ICE Munich-Hamburg is much faster than with car, because the car can’t go much faster than 150 km/h on average, while the train goes 200-250 km/h. > [@](#): > > See, you’re local. You already know how to use the trains, where they go, how to get the tickets, their schedules, and so on. Kind of like how I _used to know_ how the trains worked between Hanau, Frankfurt, and Wiesbaden back in the day. I’m most certainly not local to the Rhine region! Take that back! 😉 I really find travelling to those regions more comfortable with the internet, where every regional group - VRR, MVV and what they are all called - have a search function that allows you to get a route from main station to a street adress, with a PDF of the area around the bus stop to print out and take with you. It also adds a ticket calculator. I guess the english translation of those pages is not fully up yet, though. > [@](#): > > I guess I arrived at the right time of day, as traffic was moving. As for parking, the Maritim had plenty. I think in my two weeks there, I only encountered real stau on the way to Duisburg one morning during rush hour. I remember it because it completely surprised me, because I’d been thinking that traffic worked brilliantly in the region. Huh. You must have travelled at odd times, then. While I spent most of the weekends a bit more north - Duisburg - the locals call the A40 Highway, the Ruhrschnellweg, the Ruhrschleichweg (Ruhr sidle path) because every morning theres a traffic jam from all the commuters there. > [@](#): > > I always hated the traffic between Frankfurt and Hanau, which seems to always suck (who the hell puts a traffic circle on a major friggin’ freeway?). You don’t like roundabouts? 🙂 It’s just a bunch of people travelling in that region, who all don’t want to give up their cars. You could beat it by taking the train yourself, you know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/122 "2010-11-20T09:11:58Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Huh? Not at all. I don’t know when the Eastern shuttle was flying, but in the last 30+ years in Europe, there was always security at the airport. And though I’m not a Spaniard **paging Nava** , who were the ones actually hit by bombs in their train stations, they didn’t to my knowledge start with the intrusive security theater that’s done at the airports. > > When I take a train, I still walk up and can buy the ticket there and get on. No checking at all. > > The only check I had was the Eurostar to London - there was a passport control, of course, because I was leaving Belgium/EU Schengen for the UK/Not-Schengen - where they x-rayed my luggage, because somebody could blow up the Eurostar. You know, if a bomb could damage the chunnel, then I suddenly feel far less safer, because obviously it wasn’t built safely enough. > > In France, the TGV has dedicated lines surrounded by fence. In Germany, the ICE runs on normal tracks, and though [occasionally sheep get in the way](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercity-Express#Other_accidents), it’s overall safe. The Eastern Shuttle started running in the early sixties. The security at airports wasn’t much different than a train station until the late sixties, when there was a rash of hijackings. The fact that terrorists tend to go after airplanes instead of trains is more of a terrorist fashion statement than anything about relative vulnerability. A few pounds of thermite on the rails detonated at the right time would reduce a high speed rail train to a pile of bloody scrap. Frankly, I suspect that Al Qaeda has poisoned the well for aircraft hijacking. Passengers and crew are less likely to react passively to a potential threat. Notice that the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber were stopped by passengers. ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/123 "2010-11-20T15:06:08Z")
This is my guess, based on personal observations: 1. Public perception. Passenger rail’s always had a bad reputation in the States, so it would be hard to get funding for a project. Why take the train when a plane is faster and driving is cheaper? 2. Again, that whole car thing. A person has many more options driving his own car than taking public transportation, and the US places a much higher value on personal freedom and convenience. 3. Infrastructure. The United States doesn’t have any existing infrastructure to support high-speed rail, and pretty much all of the premium space has been taken up by everything else already. Also, US public transportation also sucks giant donkey balls (though I will grant it’s much better in major cities). 4. Geography. There are places in the U.S. that are much greater engineering challenges–in addition to earthquakes, one also has to worry about flash floods, tornadoes, extreme heat and cold, and hurricanes, just to name a few things. It’s probably not as big a deal-breaker as the other three factors, but it’s definitely another obstacle. And now, anecdote time! I visited Taipei back when they were revamping their subway system. They were shutting down streets at least one or two blocks at a time, digging up the road to work on the existing rails or build new ones. I recall thinking to myself how likely such a project could work in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/124 "2010-11-20T16:22:11Z")
There is an article by Robert Samuelson in Newsweek explaining why high speed rail won’t work in the US. The economics of the various routes are such that even if 100% of air passengers switch to trains, it wouldn’t pay for itself. [http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/29/why-high-speed-trains-don-t-make-sense.html](http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/29/why-high-speed-trains-don-t-make-sense.html) I live in Orlando. Once, out of curiosity, I checked how many cities I have non-stop flights to and it turned out to be over 90. Another 30 or 40 cites I could get to with one stop and practically every city in North America with one change of plane. The idea that high speed rail would replace a significant percentage of that is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/125 "2010-11-20T16:28:23Z")
But it’s not just air passengers who might see high-speed rail as an alternative. One hopes that some people in autos (particularly those driving solo) might take a high-speed train instead of driving themselves. (There is the issue of how to get to your final destination once you arrive, but perhaps shared car services might be good for that.) ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/126 "2010-11-20T16:44:54Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Yes, but I live in Boston, and I don’t see Amtrak advertising the Acela for trips to Washington. How are the Boston-New York City and NYC-Washington routes in terms of cost and time? Boston-\>NYC is anywhere from $95-229. [Amtrak.com](http://Amtrak.com) answers the question well. And it takes 3.5 hours. So you pay $50 more to save about a half hour. If that’s worth it to you. Compared to driving, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/127 "2010-11-20T17:13:14Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > There is an article by Robert Samuelson in Newsweek explaining why high speed rail won’t work in the US. The economics of the various routes are such that even if 100% of air passengers switch to trains, it wouldn’t pay for itself. > > [http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/29/why-high-speed-trains-don-t-make-sense.html](http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/29/why-high-speed-trains-don-t-make-sense.html) Seems like he’s comparing apples to oranges. > [@](#): > > Every day, about 140 million Americans go to work, with 85 percent driving an average of 25 minutes (three quarters drive alone, 10 percent carpool). Even with 250,000 high-speed rail passengers, there would be no visible effect on routine commuting, let alone personal driving. In the Northeast Corridor, with about 45 million people, Amtrak’s daily ridership is 28,500. If its trains shut down tomorrow, no one except the affected passengers would notice. As far as I know, no one is proposing high-speed rail as a replacement for daily commuters. And 28,500 passengers per day doesn’t sound like much, but that’s over 10.4 million per year. > [@](#): > > I live in Orlando. Once, out of curiosity, I checked how many cities I have non-stop flights to and it turned out to be over 90. Another 30 or 40 cites I could get to with one stop and practically every city in North America with one change of plane. The idea that high speed rail would replace a significant percentage of that is ludicrous. No one is proposing high-speed rail for cross-country trips, either. > [@GiantRat](#): > > Boston-\>NYC is anywhere from $95-229. [Amtrak.com](http://Amtrak.com) answers the question well. And it takes 3.5 hours. So you pay $50 more to save about a half hour. If that’s worth it to you. Compared to driving, that is. So, what case are you trying to make? You were originally comparing Boston-Washington with flying, now you’re comparing Boston-NYC with driving. Don’t forget the costs of gas, tolls, and parking, which is not cheap in New York City. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/128 "2010-11-20T19:45:11Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Seems like he’s comparing apples to oranges.As far as I know, no one is proposing high-speed rail as a replacement for daily commuters. And 28,500 passengers per day doesn’t sound like much, but that’s over 10.4 million per year. Are you under the impression that changing the units actually makes the number bigger? > [@](#): > > No one is proposing high-speed rail for cross-country trips, either. That brings up the question of what problem we are trying to solve by borrowing 100 of billions of dollars to build a high speed rail system? If we aren’t displacing a significant part of air travel then what are we doing? Samuelson states it well: > [@](#): > > Indeed, intercity trains—at whatever speed—target such a small part of total travel that the effects on reduced oil use, traffic congestion, and greenhouse gases must be microscopic. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/129 "2010-11-20T20:36:47Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Are you under the impression that changing the units actually makes the number bigger? > That brings up the question of what problem we are trying to solve by borrowing 100 of billions of dollars to build a high speed rail system? If we aren’t displacing a significant part of air travel then what are we doing? > > Samuelson states it well: Medium distance trips, such as San Francisco to Los Angeles. It’s terribly inefficient to use runway slots for such short trips. Samuelson doesn’t get the point. He says: “Los Angeles to San Francisco led the list with 13,838 passengers; altogether, daily air passengers in these 12 corridors totaled 52,934. If all of them switched to trains, the number of airline passengers, about 2 million a day, would drop only 2.5 percent.” The point is that the number of air travellers specifically on the Los Angeles to San Francisco corridor would drop significantly, freeing up the airports for better usage. The train is meant to compete with short distance air travel. To the extent it takes people out of cars, that’s just icing. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/130 "2010-11-20T22:40:15Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Are you under the impression that changing the units actually makes the number bigger? The quote from the piece was: > [@](#): > > In the Northeast Corridor, with about 45 million people, Amtrak’s daily ridership is 28,500. If its trains shut down tomorrow, no one except the affected passengers would notice. 28,500 out of 45 million sounds miniscule. 10.4 million out of 45 million is 23%. That includes some repeat users, I’m sure, but if 23% of the region’s population is using something, that number is not so easy to dismiss. And that’s with the modest service that currently exists. I question his argument on other grounds, too. His comparisons only mention the number of trips, not the distance travelled. And there’s his comment that “even trains need fuel”. I wonder if he knows that high-speed trains are electric. > [@](#): > > That brings up the question of what problem we are trying to solve by borrowing 100 of billions of dollars to build a high speed rail system? If we aren’t displacing a significant part of air travel then what are we doing? Displacing the shorter end of plane travel and some car travel. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/131 "2010-11-21T01:14:05Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > The quote from the piece was:28,500 out of 45 million sounds miniscule. 10.4 million out of 45 million is 23%. That includes some repeat users, I’m sure, but if 23% of the region’s population is using something, that number is not so easy to dismiss. And that’s with the modest service that currently exists. > > I question his argument on other grounds, too. His comparisons only mention the number of trips, not the distance travelled. And there’s his comment that “even trains need fuel”. I wonder if he knows that high-speed trains are electric. > > Displacing the shorter end of plane travel and some car travel. No matter how you state it, what he is saying is the on a given day 0.06% of the population of the NE Corridor will ride an Amtrak train. The actual number would be smaller, since some of the Amtrak passengers will be returning the same day. If you want to compare passenger miles, then Amtrak is around 6 billion a year. Air travel is 823 billion and automobile travel is around 3,800 billion. The number are from chapters 8 and 9 in the Transportation Energy Data Book 29th edition, chapters 8 and 9. I came up with 3,800 by using 1.3 people per vehicle. These are all 2008 numbers. I still have a problem adjusting to the idea that we have 250 million vehicles in this country and only 208 million licensed drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/132 "2010-11-21T01:20:04Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I still have a problem adjusting to the idea that we have 250 million vehicles in this country and only 208 million licensed drivers. Aside from the obvious where one person may have two or more vehicles, there are all sorts of work vehicles on the road. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/133 "2010-11-21T04:04:06Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > It’s obvious you have an iopin you want to vomit forth rather a question to be answered. > [@coremelt](#): > > Thanks for your post which is devoid of any meaningful substance except your own ignorant opinions… I > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > First off, learn to use English. Please. > > I will give you a hint. The ellipsis has a place, and that place is not in every paragraph. > > Second, you can link to things but you cannot understand them. And you fail to do even that usefully. The fact that you know nothing about the geopgraphy or urban layout of Japan, yet use that as the basis for your entire argument (an argument which I repeat shoudl not even be in this section of the fotrum), deafens with its silence. You know jack squat about economics. Try to learn something, and you will suddenyl find that HSR is (amazingly) not in the least bit an easy choice. At BEST, it is a monumentally expensive choice applicable only to certain locations. Treating it like the automatic go-to choice is based on emotion, not any form of reason. > > I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. > [@coremelt](#): > > Once again, no actual logic or argument from you at all. Where’s your reasoning? [Moderator Note] These posts are inappropriate for GQ, Please dial it back. No warning issued. Since the OP seems more interested in advancing a position, rather than simply obtaining facts, at this point this is probably better suited to GD than GQ. And I would remind the participants to maintain an appropriate level of civility in GD. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/134 "2010-11-21T05:56:17Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > If you want to compare passenger miles, then Amtrak is around 6 billion a year. Air travel is 823 billion and automobile travel is around 3,800 billion. So, plenty of room for growth in the rail sector, then. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/135 "2010-11-21T07:03:40Z")
Part of the reason is just history. England started off viable train travel in the early 1800’s. The US and much of Europe followed shortly afterward. Nothing is perfect when it’s first started, so England, US, Europe, etc had to all sorts of developmental issues. Which means, even today, if you trace back ‘why can’t we…’ for EU or US trains, some of the reasons will be along the lines of ‘because in 1830 someone made a boneheaded decision…’ Contrast that to Japan. They didn’t start their railways until a good forty or fifty year after the others. So they had the advantage of avoiding developmental choices other nations were stuck with. During WWII large chunks of Japans rail service got destroyed, allowing them to redesign those parts. Also, during WWII the military took over the train system and largely banned civilian travel. People were used to not having trains, so there wasn’t a huge pressure on Japan to rebuild ASAP. Which meant they had time to plan and get it right. In a way, it’s a lot like the software industry and legacy support. In the 70’s and 80’s certain decisions were made on how DOS works. Microsoft didn’t redesign from scratch until Windows Vista in 2007. So for over 25 years, MS was stuck with Gates opinion from 1981 that 640k was good enough for anybody. Someone designing from scratch after that wouldn’t have to deal with that issue for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/136 "2010-11-21T07:33:54Z")
> [@godix](#): > > In a way, it’s a lot like the software industry and legacy support. In the 70’s and 80’s certain decisions were made on how DOS works. Microsoft didn’t redesign from scratch until Windows Vista in 2007. So for over 25 years, MS was stuck with Gates opinion from 1981 that 640k was good enough for anybody. Someone designing from scratch after that wouldn’t have to deal with that issue for decades. I still cringe a little bit when I hear someone give a web address and say “forward slash”. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/137 "2010-11-23T06:56:05Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Certainly you could if you look at the bigger picture and not just the returns from ticket sales. A dedicated high speed 300kph+ network on seperate tracks connecting New York / Boston / DC to Chicago and throughout the larger midwest towns would revitalise the dying rust belt towns in the same way I’m saying it would for the small towns that are currently more than 2 hours drive outside Sydney and Melbourne. > > It would be a massive overtaking which could only be government funded, but so were the US National High Way System and the Apollo Program and Manhatten project. > > Think you could get that US east coast to mid west high speed rail network for $3.7 Trillion? That’s how much the financial bailout cost in 2009… Does anyone on here really think it’s better that it got sent BACK to the bankers that caused the problem in the first place? **Coremelt** , I agree with everything you’ve posted in this thread. My take is that high-speed rail will never occur in the United States because voters prefer we send $20 billion dollars to some obscure country rather than spend it domestically. In fact, we have a word for domestic spending: Pork. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/138 "2010-11-23T14:50:49Z")
:rolleyes: Our _total_ foreign economic aid budget is about $30 billion. We’ve never sent “$20 billion dollars” to any country, obscure or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/139 "2010-11-23T15:19:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > :rolleyes: Our _total_ foreign economic aid budget is about $30 billion. We’ve never sent “$20 billion dollars” to any country, obscure or otherwise. Whatever. Travel in America suck. Driving and post-9/11 air travel is inherently stressful. Air travel is not cheap. Last I checked, flights from Columbus to Detroit is over 300 bucks for a 52 minute flight I don’t know what the solution is but the solution \ IS NOT TO BUILD MORE FRIGGIN’ ROADS \. Is it possible that we can move away from cars to an alternative that doesn’t require compulsory insurance, monthly payments, variable fuel prices? My point about foreign aid is that voters don’t want public monies spent on the general welfare of U.S citizens. This is why a large bloc of voters starve education and medicare funding - can’t help fellow Americans, they must help themselves (some how, some way) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417/140 "2010-11-23T15:28:12Z")
Well, fair enough. Bear in mind, though, that that same bloc of voters is constantly demanding that we cut off foreign aid, as though we actually offered a significant amount. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-shinkansen-bullet-trains-work-anywhere-else-in-the-world/560417.md?page=8)