# Why Can't the US Help Itself? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 20, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517 "2014-04-20T00:19:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_Hey_Paula)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/21 "2014-04-23T03:10:31Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Yes. It’s good luck. I don’t think anyone has picked them up for the financial benefits since about 1950. They’re also good for making those cool pressed pennies at tourist attractions. What other souvenier can you get for 51 cents? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/22 "2014-04-23T12:49:06Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > It’s a slippery slope. First you eliminate the penny, then before you know it, there goes the $1 bill. Wouldn’t be a bad idea either. We’d save money going to a dollar coin. Plus the vending machine would quit rejecting my dollar because it has a crease :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/23 "2014-04-23T14:38:19Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Wouldn’t be a bad idea either. We’d save money going to a dollar coin. Plus the vending machine would quit rejecting my dollar because it has a crease :mad: Singapore did that. They just have a $1 coin now, and the $2 bill is the lowest paper currency. (US$1 = S$1.25.) ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/24 "2014-04-23T16:26:18Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Wouldn’t be a bad idea either. We’d save money going to a dollar coin. Plus the vending machine would quit rejecting my dollar because it has a crease :mad: They keep trying. Every few years, the Mint foists a new design of dollar coin on us, and every few years the American public responds with a disinterested yawn. Nobody uses them, and the idea goes dormant for another few years before the cycle repeats itself. Seriously, the US public simply does not want to be bothered with dollar coins. They’ve said so (by not using them) time & again over the years. Coins of any size or denomination are regarded as little more than a nuisance these days. Half the country (and probably 3/4 of the male population) keeps a coin jar that they toss all of their change into at the end of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/25 "2014-04-23T17:05:47Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Wouldn’t be a bad idea either. We’d save money going to a dollar coin. Plus the vending machine would quit rejecting my dollar because it has a crease :mad: Closet Canadian! Go ahead, say it - say “Eh?”! ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/26 "2014-04-23T21:20:00Z")
Oddly enough, the fact that it takes more than a penny to make a penny doesn’t mean that the penny is a financial failure. If it’s useful in helping transactions flow smoothly, then it serves a useful purpose, over and over, as it changes hands. But I doubt anyone believes it serves a useful purpose; most of us would be happy with the nickel as the smallest denomination. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/27 "2014-04-24T04:02:41Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > They keep trying. Every few years, the Mint foists a new design of dollar coin on us, and every few years the American public responds with a disinterested yawn. Nobody uses them, and the idea goes dormant for another few years before the cycle repeats itself. > > Seriously, the US public simply does not want to be bothered with dollar coins. They’ve said so (by not using them) time & again over the years. _Retailers_ killed the dollar coins. If there’s a choice between dollar bills and dollar coins, they’re the ones who choose since you only get them in change. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/28 "2014-04-24T04:07:10Z")
Both the USPS and the coin situation are minor issues when compared the amounts spent and wasted by the DoD. Unless and until Pentagon spending is severely reigned (well…AFTER the war in Ukraine, that is) then any hope of saving the US economy is out the window. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/29 "2014-04-24T12:43:34Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > _Retailers_ killed the dollar coins. If there’s a choice between dollar bills and dollar coins, they’re the ones who choose since you only get them in change. Retailers will give their customers what they want, period. If customers express a preference for dollar coins , retailers will keep them. Not only has that not happened in the US, most people expressly reject dollar coins when given as change. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/30 "2014-04-24T17:58:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Pennies may not make economic sense. But polls indicate the American people still want them. The government giving people what they want is not a waste of tax dollars. It is if what people want is a stupid waste of tax dollars. Sometimes it’s the government’s job to lead and do something temporarily unpopular. When the Canadian government announced the intention to do away with the dollar bill and have a dollar coin, people generally weren’t happy about it. The government did it anyway, because it was the smart thing to do, and the population came around. The right thing to do was not the popular thing. The reason the coin was adopted here, and never has caught on in the USA, is that the Canadian government was serious about it and **stopped making one-dollar bills**. In a very short period of time you had no choice. You had to use the coin. Rejecting it wasn’t an option. Surprise, surprise; people accepted it, and eventually realized it was better. Nobody wants to go back. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/31 "2014-04-24T18:09:01Z")
The USPS does a fine job. Republicans want to kill it because they want everything associated with the government to fail- so that’s why that saddled it with these extreme pension funding requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/32 "2014-04-24T18:13:18Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > The United States Postal Service (USPS) was established on July 1, 1971 by the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970. It replaced the now-defunct Post Office Department (POD). The USPS is [“an independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States.”](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/39/201) At that time, the Postmaster General ceased to be a member of the presidential cabinet and was no longer in the line of succession to the presidency. After that date, postal rates and regulations were no longer set by Congress, but by the USPS Board of Governors with the approval of the Postal Regulatory Commission. > > This had nothing to do with ZIP Codes, which were put in place by the old Post Office Department in 1963. … that, and they recognize the OP to be the one and only Santa Claus… Postage…! Its wasted on the Wrong People… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/33 "2014-04-24T18:15:53Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > Yes, it’s still legal tender, nearly valueless as it may be, but it eventually adds up… > > I actually sort pennies into two separate jars, one for copper pennies (pre-1982) and zinc pennies ('83 onwards), I keep the coppers, and redeem the zinc ones in the free coin counter in my bank > > Zinc pennies are truly worthless, coppers have an actual melt value (roughly 2 to 3 cents per penny), even though it’s illegal to melt US coinage, and I don’t melt them down, the copper in the coins has value beyond the face value of the coin Friends of mine in the SCA use all-copper pennies as washers when they rivet straps to their armor; apparently it’s a medieval-appropriate use. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/34 "2014-04-24T20:41:34Z")
Too many competing interests, too much invested in the status quo, too many politicians scared to state a position or shake things up, too much business and government overlap. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/35 "2014-04-24T21:14:21Z")
I’ve heard that the zinc companies (Big Zinc?) have a pretty strong hand in pennies sticking around. Here, according to [a wiki page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_debate_in_the_United_States) on the penny debate: > [@](#): > > The sole provider of zinc “penny blanks”, Jarden Zinc Products, has hired lobbyists to make the case for preserving the penny and their sales. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/36 "2014-04-24T21:42:54Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > They keep trying. Every few years, the Mint foists a new design of dollar coin on us, and every few years the American public responds with a disinterested yawn. Not only do we utter a collective yawn, but we have for more than a century. If you look at the history of[dollar coins](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_coin_(United_States)) in the U.S., you’ll see they haven’t really been popular since the Civil War. The gold dollar coins were too small. So small that the government stopped issuing them in favor of larger silver dollars. The silver dollar coins were too big. So big that the government issued paper money (silver certificates) as a substitute. Hell, people even thought THOSE were too big, so the government shrunk the size of the bills in 1928. The post-1979 dollar coins were too, uhh, medium (too much like a quarter.) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/37 "2014-04-24T22:26:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Congress has mandated that the USPS fund its pension system for a greater number of years than required of any other business. This has turned it from a break-even enterprise to one drowning in red ink not because of business practices but due to requirements imposed by the government. Reverse the requirement to a more sane level and a lot of the USPS budget problems go away. This won’t happen. UPS & Fed Ex give [del]bribes[/del] campaign contributions to keep the USPS spiraling down the drain. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/38 "2014-04-24T22:30:08Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Not only do we utter a collective yawn, but we have for more than a century. If you look at the history of[dollar coins](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_coin_(United_States)) in the U.S., you’ll see they haven’t really been popular since the Civil War. > > The gold dollar coins were too small. So small that the government stopped issuing them in favor of larger silver dollars. > > The silver dollar coins were too big. So big that the government issued paper money (silver certificates) as a substitute. Hell, people even thought THOSE were too big, so the government shrunk the size of the bills in 1928. > > The post-1979 dollar coins were too, uhh, medium (too much like a quarter.) The Canadian loonie is not too different in size, shape, color, and weight from the coin that Americans cannot use. In other words, it’s not about the size or shape of the coins or anything practical, it’s a weird cultural issue combined with the existence of the one-dollar bill and habit. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/39 "2014-04-24T23:05:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Surprise, surprise; people accepted it, and eventually realized it was better. Nobody wants to go back. Eh… I’ve spent a lot of time in Europe and the UK and used Euro and Pound coins quite a bit, and I can’t say I found them drastically more convenient or useful than dollar bills. Nothing negative about them either, except that if you accumulated more than 5 pounds or euros, your change pocket got kind of weighty. They make sense from a governmental perspective, but from a user perspective, they’re neither here nor there. If the US government wants to get serious about dollar coins, they need to do two things- remove bills from circulation, and make the dollar coins noticeably larger and heavier than the quarter. The current dollar coins are indeed larger and heavier, but not enough in either way to be very easily distinguishable from quarters, unlike the 1 Euro piece vs. the 20 cent coin or the 1 Pound coin vs. the 20p coin. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517/40 "2014-04-24T23:39:33Z")
> [@bump](#): > > If the US government wants to get serious about dollar coins, they need to do two things- remove bills from circulation, and make the dollar coins noticeably larger and heavier than the quarter. The current dollar coins are indeed larger and heavier, but not enough in either way to be very easily distinguishable from quarters, unlike the 1 Euro piece vs. the 20 cent coin or the 1 Pound coin vs. the 20p coin. Objectively, are dollar coins and quarters more difficult to distinguish than quarters and nickels? [This chart](http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/index.cfm?action=Coin_specifications) shows the information. Nickel & quarter: both silver in color, vs. dollar: golden. Nickel & quarter: .67g difference, vs. dollar: 2.33 grams heavier than the quarter Nickel & quarter: 3.05 mm difference in diameter, vs. dollar: 2.23 mm difference Nickel & quarter: nickel is .2 mm thicker, vs. dollar, .25 mm thicker Each of the three has a different edge. So the ONLY way in which the quarter and dollar coin are more confusable than the quarter and nickel is the diameter, where there is already a 2.23 mm difference. That is more than the difference between dime & penny or penny & nickel, so, in short, I call bullshit on the “too hard to distinguish from a quarter” statement. (I don’t believe it for the old Susan B. Anthony dollar, either, though I’ll admit it’s a stronger argument with those. They were only hard to distinguish if you weren’t considering their existence.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-the-us-help-itself/686517.md?page=3)