# Why can't those girls wear a pentacle to school? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 6, 2002, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209 "2002-09-06T00:05:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/1 "2002-09-06T00:05:12Z")
Two girls in Waxahacie Texas are kicked out of school for wearing necklaces with a pentacle? (if that is the correct spelling) around their necks. The girls claim that the symbols (looking something like a five point star with a circle around it) represent the earth and other good things. I didn’t do any research on this but it struck me right away as idiotic that they were kicked out of school for wearing necklaces with a vague symbol on it. Isn’t that a form of self expression like designer shoes and calvin Kleins jeans? Somebody set me straight. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/2 "2002-09-06T00:10:30Z")
This again?! I wish one of my fellow Christians would explain to me why wearing a cross to school is acceptable but not a pentacle. Freedom of religion includes _all_ religions or none. CJ ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/3 "2002-09-06T00:15:41Z")
A cite, a site, my kingdom for a cyte . . . ---
**Author:** ![Savaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@Savaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savaka)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/4 "2002-09-06T00:29:31Z")
[Cite](http://www.nbc5i.com/news/1639193/detail.html), [site](http://www.waxahachie.com), and [cyte](http://electron.mit.edu/~gsteele/mirrors/elchem.kaist.ac.kr/jhkwak/TopometrixWeb/images/rbcliqd2.GIF). ---
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/5 "2002-09-06T00:30:02Z")
Sorry andros I just saw this on the Dallas news. And wondered what my fellow dopers would have to say about it pro or con. ---
**Author:** ![Savaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@Savaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savaka)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/6 "2002-09-06T00:34:01Z")
**aha** , what’s to say? It’s a cut-and-dried case of religious discrimination. The district will probably settle out of court once the ACLU starts making some noise. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/7 "2002-09-06T00:35:00Z")
Thanks, **Savaka** , much obliged. No worries, **aha** –mostly I want to post the story at another MB and see what other reactions I might get . . . ---
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/8 "2002-09-06T00:36:09Z")
I did find this at [blessedbee.com](http://blessedbee.com) : An ancient symbol of life and representation of the four elements plus that of the spirit, the pentacle is the symbol of religious faith for Wiccans and many pagans. The neverending circle serves to remind us of the cycle of life and the upper point of the star points us toward Deity and the Divine Source. So shouldn’t all jewelry be banned from schools? If this has been done I apologize but I haven’t been to great debates in a while. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/9 "2002-09-06T00:37:21Z")
Well, much obliged for the first couple links at least. I get plenty of the third one in my dumpster. Don’t ask. ---
**Author:** ![Savaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@Savaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savaka)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/10 "2002-09-06T00:47:11Z")
Sorry, **aha**. I didn’t read your post closely enough and overlooked a couple of your questions. The pentacle is a pretty well-established symbol of neo-paganism in general and Wicca in particular. I don’t know much about these faiths, so I’ll let other posters give you more detail about the symbology. But the pentacles are more than just “vague symbols” that might be permitted on free speech grounds, they’re religious imagery. Provided that the students who wore them were not harrassing anyone with them, they are a protected form of religious practice, even (or especially) in the public schools. And it isn’t a case of “if they let people wear crosses, then they have to let people wear pentacles.” Crosses, Stars of David, pentacles are all protected. The district can’t say “We’re banning them all, just to be fair.” ---
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/11 "2002-09-06T00:50:52Z")
But savaka they have banned the wearing of “chain necklaces” where I teach. I suppose theyI]could\* be used as a weapon but they are still necklaces. ---
**Author:** ![Savaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@Savaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savaka)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/12 "2002-09-06T00:51:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\*Well, much obliged for the first couple links at least. I get plenty of the third one in my dumpster. > > Don’t ask. \*\* Nope. I’m afraid I’m gonna have to ask. Your _dumpster_??? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/13 "2002-09-06T00:52:11Z")
Some school administrators and boards have gone off the deep end. ---
**Author:** ![Savaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@Savaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savaka)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/14 "2002-09-06T01:02:10Z")
Yes, you’re right. Schools can ban things that are dangerous or disruptive to learning. I believe they can also establish dress codes, provided they don’t violate constitutional principles like equal protection and the like. But they can’t ban religious imagery just because they think that imagery will be disruptive, which is what happened here. From [religioustolerance.org](http://www.religioustolerance.org/sch_clot1.htm): > [@](#): > > There is no age limit contained in the free exercise clause; it applies to students as well as adults. The US Supreme Court has ruled that students’ rights do not stop at the school door. One way of expressing one’s religion is to wear religious jewelry (pendants, rings, broaches, etc.). Another is to wear clothing (t-shirts, etc.) containing religious statements. Both are protected rights, in most cases. Even in Waxahachie. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/15 "2002-09-06T01:26:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Savaka \* > \*\*Nope. I’m afraid I’m gonna have to ask. > > Your _dumpster_??? \*\* Hmmm. Nope, I’m in the same state as you. I’d probably better not share the name of the restaurant. ::d&r:: ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/16 "2002-09-06T02:17:12Z")
Dress codes often have the disruption clause in them, to let them deal with kids who think they’ve found a loophole. Tank tops aren’t allowed, so somebody cuts the sleeves off a thin white t-shirt and wears a black bra under it with the straps hanging out. Home they go, disruption of class. Still, this is an issue of religious freedom, and if they allow crucifixes and David’s stars, they have to allow pentacles. ---
**Author:** ![Savaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@Savaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savaka)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/17 "2002-09-06T02:17:50Z")
See, now that’s not even funny. I have enough weird compulsions without having to check the dumpsters of every restaurant I eat at. Now I’m going to have to move to Waxahachie. Sure, they don’t follow the Constitution, but at least their restaurants are safe. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/18 "2002-09-06T02:23:21Z")
Let’s see, an ancient symbol of torture and death is protected in Texas and a star made from two triangles is okay, but– if a student takes a star from the American flag, and places it in a circle, that student is “hurting all” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/19 "2002-09-06T02:31:06Z")
Let’s see, an ancient symbol of torture and death is protected in Texas and a star made from two triangles is okay, but– if a student takes a star from the American flag, and places it in a circle, that student is “hurting all” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Savaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@Savaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savaka)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209/20 "2002-09-06T02:31:52Z")
And I hope it’s obvious that my post above was directed at **andros**. The last thing I need is to get on the bad side of a “Crazy Cat Lady” as I’m looking through my dumpsters. In Texas. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-those-girls-wear-a-pentacle-to-school/127209.md?page=2)