# Why can't US tourists visit Cuba?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 10, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443 "2012-02-10T19:01:34Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/41 "2012-02-11T20:46:54Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#):
>
> Gosh, I suppose a lot of warm, poor, countries are nice if you have money and do not mind supporting the local dictator. This year, why not Burma?
Uh? This coming from someone who has lived in Saudi Arabia for years? :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/42 "2012-02-11T20:55:26Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> The United States is a Free Country. We can go wherever we’re allowed to.
Coming back can be a problem, though.
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### Author:  [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/43 "2012-02-11T21:43:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> Coming back can be a problem, though.
In practice, it’s only going to be a problem if you’re obviously carrying a bunch of cigars at Customs, or otherwise engaging in blatant transportation of goods in some way. In fact, enforcement of violations of the “Trading With the Enemy Act” has resulted in only four people actually penalized at Customs at the border since 2009. [This website](http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/CivPen/Pages/civpen-index2.aspx) shows ALL sanctions for ALL prohibited international trade (with countries like Iran or Sudan) which have been imposed recently. Since 2004 only about 900 individuals have been penalized for dealing with Cuba–and just about all are individuals ordering cigars online. Other than individuals, the others are big companies that have paid civil fees in settlements for somehow transporting Cuban goods into the U.S. (probably by way of a third country). No one was imprisoned at the border, as far as I can tell from here and other documentation.
As for “supporting the regime of a dictator”–well, if that were really the issue, then the government could just stop all those Cubans in south Florida from sending any remittances at all to their family back home–but it doesn’t.
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### Author:  [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/44 "2012-02-11T22:30:15Z")
> [@usar\_jag](#):
>
> I just spent over a year in Cuba–not sure if I’d recommend it, though.
Can you elaborate as to why not?
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/45 "2012-02-11T23:35:09Z")
[Moderating]
Moved to GD from the Pit.
[/Moderating]
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/46 "2012-02-12T02:09:38Z")
> [@Musicat](#):
>
> ```
> We're waiting for Castro to die.
>
> ```
IMO what keeps El Jefe motivated to stay on this side of the grass anymore is sheer determination to deny the folks he kicked out in the early 60s the satisfaction.
[QUOTE=NDP]
Bingo. There’s no reason why full diplomatic relations should not have been implementedand the trade block lifted years ago. Right now, it’s pretty much a pointless grudge.
[/QUOTE]
Yep. And even more pointless when you think that meanwhile, we normalized relations with Vietnam. _ **Vietnam** _! But Cuba, oh, noooo, not Cuba…
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### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/47 "2012-02-12T02:25:48Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#):
>
> Sure you wanna start chucking stones at dictator-proppers, O Artist Formerly Known as **Paul in Saudi**?
And I am in Saudi Arabia. And I am changing the system. I do not (for example) go drinking in Bahrain as I am opposed to supporting their dictatorship.
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### Author:  [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/48 "2012-02-12T18:01:40Z")
> [@usar\_jag](#):
>
> I just spent over a year in Cuba–not sure if I’d recommend it, though.
Can you give us an overview of what life there is like? For instance, I’d be curious about ex-pat communities there.
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### Author:  [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/49 "2012-02-12T20:30:24Z")
> [@RedFury](#):
>
> Can you give us an overview of what life there is like? For instance, I’d be curious about ex-pat communities there.
Probably was assigned to Gitmo, so it really wouldn’t be like actually living in Cuba. Almost no one there ever leaves the base, I believe.
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### Author:  [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/50 "2012-02-12T21:31:12Z")
Hmmm…I’ve always thought of Gitmo as an extreme vacation spot. Kinda like the X-games of vacation.
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### Author:  [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/51 "2012-02-13T12:52:52Z")
A few years ago I was sweating bullets as I brought a box of Cuban cigars home to America from Toronto.
Turns out the customs guy just waved us through.
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### Author:  [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/52 "2012-02-13T17:40:08Z")
> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> A dream trip of mine, I just hope I get there before McDonalds.
Speaking of, my coworker has vacationed in Cuba several times and she says the food tastes so much different than ours just because of different agricultural practices. She says it’s still good, but the beef has different texture and flavour to it and stuff like that. Be interesting to see how that would change with a Mickey D’s!
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/53 "2012-02-13T18:06:10Z")
Since the core of the OP has already been answered (it’s not illegal for US tourists to visit Cuba, just restricted…and this is because the embargo by the US on Cuba is still in place, and probably will remain so until either the current Cuban leadership dies off or Cuba pays reparations for the seizure and nationalization of property and industry from US citizens…or, by this point, their decedents).
> [@](#):
>
> Americans are willing to give up their freedom and the potential economic benefits of trade because of a small special-interest group?
The trouble is, there isn’t a burning need for the citizens of the US to go to Cuba as tourists. It would be nice, but by and large there just aren’t enough people who care. It’s in CUBA’S best interest to normalize relations with the US, not ours, since the tourist trade is the biggest source of income for Cuba. It also wouldn’t be a huge boost to the US wrt trade with Cuba…again, the money would flow the other way.
The trouble would be that as things stand now and have stood since the revolution, no one (not even those Europeans and Canadians who ARE allowed to freely travel to Cuba for tourism or trade) is going to invest real money in Cuba, since there is the whole seizure and nationalization thingy still hanging over it all. That’s kind of why there has been a jump in tourism since the 90’s (when the Cuba’s, strapped for cash, actually allowed official tourist to start coming to the country again) but has dropped off lately…most of their stuff is old and poorly maintained by western standards, and without external investment it’s unlikely to change.
Bottom line though is there just aren’t enough Americans who care about Cuba, or even have it on their radar to change the status quo. There is no huge benefit to us to change…and the Cuban’s are too set in their own ways to make a real effort at rapprochement with the US, something that would benefit them tremendously. Perhaps when the old guard finally shuffles off this mortal coil things will change…but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
> [@](#):
>
> As far as I know, Cuba is the only country that Americans are not legally allowed to visit. Is it just that no one wants to bell the cat (=be the first to admit the status quo isn’t working), or is there some benefit to the way things are that I’m not seeing?
The trouble is, the status quo IS working…for us. What is the big benefit to the average American to change it? Why would they care enough to agitate for it? What would they get out of it? The answers are basically nothing. The benefit would be to Cuba in the US doing this sort of thing. A better question is, seeing China and all the benefits they have incurred by normalizing relations with the US in the 70’s, why the fuck haven’t the Cuban’s figured this out yet, especially after the gravy train from the Soviet Union stopped chugging along?
-XT
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### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/54 "2012-02-13T18:22:47Z")
> [@xtisme](#):
>
> The trouble is, the status quo IS working…for us. What is the big benefit to the average American to change it? Why would they care enough to agitate for it? What would they get out of it? The answers are basically nothing. The benefit would be to Cuba in the US doing this sort of thing…
An interesting and thoughtful post. My response is that I dislike having my freedom arbitrarily restricted by my government, and that’s enough for me to agitate for change. Of course, freedom can be bought and sold for dollars.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/55 "2012-02-13T20:15:46Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Drake]
An interesting and thoughtful post. My response is that I dislike having my freedom arbitrarily restricted by my government, and that’s enough for me to agitate for change. Of course, freedom can be bought and sold for dollars.
[/QUOTE]
Sure, and I agree. Full disclosure…I’d LOVE for the embargo to be lifted and trade restored between Cuba and the US. I’m a cigar smoker, and access to Cuban cigars is high on my list of wonderful things. However, it’s just not a priority for most Americans, who probably never even think about it and who would probably not vacation in Cuba even if they had the opportunity to do so (and who also don’t smoke cigars or need sugar or other products the Cubans could produce for trade with the US). So, maintaining the status quo is easiest for the US to do since there aren’t a lot of benefits, and changing it without real changes to Cuba first is just more of a political headache than the political gain would be worth. The only folks who really think about Cuba are mainly opposed to any real change in the status quo without Cuba paying reparations and making deep and fundamental changes first.
-XT
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/56 "2012-02-14T15:37:43Z")
> [@xtisme](#):
>
> However, it’s just not a priority for most Americans, who probably never even think about it and who would probably not vacation in Cuba even if they had the opportunity to do so (and who also don’t smoke cigars or need sugar or other products the Cubans could produce for trade with the US).
I think that’s the truth of it. Beyond cigar aficionados, and those like **Dr. Drake** who just don’t like being restricted by their government on general principles, the inability to easily travel to or trade with Cuba has **no impact** on the lives of the vast majority of Americans. Thus, they have no incentive to support a change, while the Cuban expat lobby still has an incentive to oppose a change.
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### Author:  [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/57 "2012-02-14T16:59:56Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> I think that’s the truth of it. Beyond cigar aficionados, and those like **Dr. Drake** who just don’t like being restricted by their government on general principles, the inability to easily travel to or trade with Cuba has **no impact** on the lives of the vast majority of Americans.
Well I myself have gone there because of my deep appreciation of the present musical culture (particularly timba). Yes, those musical acts can get visas to tour in the States, but only the really big names, and often they have difficulties doing so. Plus, attending live performances in country itself is totally different than the venues here. But to be honest, when I go there I certainly don’t miss McDonalds, etc., and other dreck that U.S. tourism would attract.
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> Thus, they have no incentive to support a change, while the Cuban expat lobby still has an incentive to oppose a change.
If it weren’t for that lobby, there is nothing to stop the U.S. government from wanting a stronger Cuban economy by way of tourism. The stronger the Cuban economy, the more they can buy from us.
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### Author:  [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/58 "2012-02-14T17:11:37Z")
Remember that trade only happens because two guys want what the other has. Every single transaction is mutually beneficial.
> [@Dr.Drake](#):
>
> So basically, ANY significant minority in Florida can hold national policy hostage, but the same people in California or the entire population of North Dakota acting in unison have no effect whatsoever.
No, not ANY significant minority. Only minorities that have 49% of the rest of the population in agreement with them. So no, the Miami branch of the KKK can’t hold national policy hostage. And the same people in California could have an effect if they could get another 49% to agree with them on their particular issue.
Whaddaya know, democracy works.
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### Author:  [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/59 "2012-02-14T17:32:41Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#):
>
> And the same people in California could have an effect …
Yes, but not the same number. It would take about one and a half million people of a specific interest group in California to effect the same kind of change in national foreign policy. Likewise, if all those Cubans lived in Idaho, no one would give a damn.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-us-tourists-visit-cuba/612443/60 "2012-02-14T17:35:30Z")
[QUOTE=guizot]
If it weren’t for that lobby, there is nothing to stop the U.S. government from wanting a stronger Cuban economy by way of tourism. The stronger the Cuban economy, the more they can buy from us.
[/QUOTE]
I doubt it. At this point there simply is no over riding reason for the US to change the status quo, even without the lobby (who are relatively small, compared to other lobbies in the US). Having the Cuban economy stronger is really not a priority for the US, even if it would be a (marginal) uptick in our exports, assuming that the Cubans would buy from us even if we opened up access between our two countries.
> [@](#):
>
> Well I myself have gone there because of my deep appreciation of the present musical culture (particularly timba). Yes, those musical acts can get visas to tour in the States, but only the really big names, and often they have difficulties doing so. Plus, attending live performances in country itself is totally different than the venues here. But to be honest, when I go there I certainly don’t miss McDonalds, etc., and other dreck that U.S. tourism would attract.
Americans just pollute every place they go with their dreck, sadly. I have to say, having been to Cuba myself, that it could use a bit of dreck to spiff things up a bit…it was pretty run down and bedraggled when I was there, though I’m not a music culture fan, so perhaps that would make up for things. I DID enjoy buying and smoking some really good cigars, and having some tasty rum (some of the food wasn’t bad either, though that was mostly not from restaurants), but as it was when I was there I wouldn’t be in any hurry to go back. Maybe the people are less beaten down and…not sure of the word…depressed?..these days.
-XT
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