# Why can't we fly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 12, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430 "2011-08-12T06:09:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/41 "2011-08-12T16:39:59Z")
I seem to recall reading somewhere that we would also need breastbones sticking out about three feet in order for our muscles to have the leverage to operate those gigantic wings. Overall, I think the answer is that if we could fly, we couldn’t do much else… unless, as other posters have said, we were a lot smaller and lighter. ---
**Author:** ![GlennRayinTroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GlennRayinTroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GlennRayinTroy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/42 "2011-08-12T16:43:25Z")
> [@Bosstrain](#): > > … Have fun looking for those half made eyeballs BTW. See ya’. How about [these](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diagram_of_eye_evolution.svg)? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/43 "2011-08-12T16:51:18Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > There’s no mechanism for evolution to provide us with stuff because it’s cool. That’s what genetic engineering is for. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/44 "2011-08-12T17:13:21Z")
Lots of birds that didn’t need to fly have seemed to lose the ability to do so. I’ve heard it said that powered flight has a high evolutionary cost, which I took to mean that there are many trade offs to be able to fly and unless you really need to it’s better staying on the ground or in the water. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/45 "2011-08-12T17:17:24Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Lots of birds that didn’t need to fly have seemed to lose the ability to do so. I’ve heard it said that powered flight has a high evolutionary cost, which I took to mean that there are many trade offs to be able to fly and unless you really need to it’s better staying on the ground or in the water. Yes. Among other places, you may have heard it way back in post 18 of this very thread. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/46 "2011-08-12T17:26:12Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > We can. We just need to manipulate our environment more than other flying species in order to do so. Exactly. Plane assisted flight is much easier and more efficient for us than personal flight would be. Having wings would probably have to cost us almost every other awesome thing we can do, putting us behind the smarter species of birds, who would then rule the world. We’d end up as their clunky mammalian bird-slaves, and it would suck. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/47 "2011-08-12T17:31:06Z")
> [@Bosstrain](#): > > Just my opinion (creationist here), but maybe this is really further proof that evolution is a crock. (Darwin even rejected his own theory, saying it was impossible and that it was just something he dreamed up, no evidence or scientific proof has ever been found to back it up.) :dubious: It’s certainly proof that your understanding of evolution is a crock, but I don’t think that you would get much disagreement on that. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/48 "2011-08-12T18:09:14Z")
> [@copperwindow](#): > > We grew opposing thumbs. We learned to walk upright on our legs. Why didn’t we evolve with wings so we could fly. If we could fly, we would have an advantage for finding food, protecting ourselves from predators, etc. So why can’t we fly? Any ideas? We just got started. Let’s see how this all plays out. ---
**Author:** ![SmithCommaJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@SmithCommaJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmithCommaJohn)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/49 "2011-08-12T18:27:10Z")
Might as well ask why we can’t teleport or breathe fire. Just because a feature might be advantageous, doesn’t mean it _hast_ to arise via evolution, or that it’s even possible. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/50 "2011-08-12T21:39:00Z")
> [@Bosstrain](#): > > What I do know is that science is supposed to have conclusive evidence for or against something before calling it true. And when it comes to evidence they have massive, massive amounts of evidence for it. At this point disproving evolution would pretty much require proving that the universe is an illusion. You’d have an easier time disproving gravity. > [@Bosstrain](#): > > This is a never ending debate, no one will win, ever, I’ve seen creationists turn evolutionist and vice versa. It’s pointless, no one will know. Evolution already won, long ago. The “controversy” is driven by politics and religion; the question is settled, scientifically. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/51 "2011-08-12T23:09:50Z")
> [@Bosstrain](#): > > Okay, so supposedly it was Lady Hope that made the claim about Charles, and there has been a war over it ever since, and no solid proof either way. I googled it and got several sides of the story, and when I see different sides taken, I know someone’s lying somewhere, and I don’t trust any of it. What I do know is that science is supposed to have conclusive evidence for or against something before calling it true. Evolutionists are just like any other person, they live to be 60 to 90 years old give or take, but somewhere in their limited time on earth, they got the idea that the planet was millions of years old. Try imagining a million, trust me you can’t. This is a never ending debate, no one will win, ever, I’ve seen creationists turn evolutionist and vice versa. It’s pointless, no one will know. For me, the clincher comes when I think about being alone in the universe, I’d rather die believing in a creator and simply go into the cosmos if there isn’t one, than die an evolutionist and stand before the throne of the Almighty and try explaining why I wouldn’t believe in Him. With that, I bow out gracefully, I do not wish to argue this further, no point, I just wanted to state my opinion on why we, as humans, do not have wings, and to me there’s a very good reason, cause we weren’t given any. Have fun looking for those half made eyeballs BTW. See ya’. No solid proof, except that the Lady Hope story claims that Darwin said "I was a young man with unformed ideas. I threw out queries, suggestions, wondering all the time over everything. And to my astonishment the ideas took like wildfire. People made a religion of them.” Since Darwin was 45 years old when he first published the Origin of Species (and was reluctant to do it then - he’d have preferred to have spent more time polishing the work), it’s obviously a lie that he was young when he spread his idea. Also Darwin’s daughter, who was there when Darwin died, says that Lady Hope wasn’t there. I wish you luck in the afterlife; personally, I’d rather face God as a Christian who accepts evolution, than as a creationist who passes along accusations before making even a cursory attempt to establish whether they are true. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/52 "2011-08-13T00:35:21Z")
Pilot’s lament: “If God had meant us to fly, He’d have given us more money.” ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/53 "2011-08-13T02:02:18Z")
We can fly. Check out Human powered flight on google. Gossamer Condor anyone?? We can harness our muscles and takeoff, fly, turn, and land. It’s a mechanical apparatus but it’s all human power. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/54 "2011-08-13T02:05:06Z")
My medical certificate isn’t current. Also i need a biennial flight review. And what **Elvis** said. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/55 "2011-08-13T02:47:03Z")
> [@Bosstrain](#): > > (Darwin even rejected his own theory, saying it was impossible and that it was just something he dreamed up, no evidence or scientific proof has ever been found to back it up.) It really shocks me that this flat-out lie continues to be promulgated. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/56 "2011-08-13T03:18:40Z")
> [@Bosstrain](#): > > Just my opinion (creationist here), but maybe this is really further proof that evolution is a crock. (Darwin even rejected his own theory, saying it was impossible and that it was just something he dreamed up, no evidence or scientific proof has ever been found to back it up.) :dubious: [Moderator Note] **Bosstrain** , general questions is for factual information. If you want to discuss your religious opinions, open a new thread in Great Debates. The information you posted about Darwin is patently false. Everyone else, please let’s get back to the more specific question in the OP. There is no need to engage in a general debate about evolution here. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/57 "2011-08-13T03:32:51Z")
We drifted the way we drifted. Evolution doesn’t have “reasons” for things. It’s a rock rolling down a hill. It lands where it lands. There isn’t any purpose or goal behind it. Asking why we don’t have wings is like asking why we don’t have polka dots. Because we never drifted that way. We have common ancestors with every species that did evolve wings, though. Most closely with bats. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/58 "2011-08-13T04:26:58Z")
Or, to put it another way: Evolution doesn’t cause changes. Random mutations and recombinations cause changes. Evolution is just the process that determines which changes stick around, out of the set of changes which have randomly happened. > [@](#): > > We have common ancestors with every species that did evolve wings, though. And for that matter, also with every species that didn’t evolve wings. Though you have to go back rather further for that. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/59 "2011-08-13T04:29:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Evolution doesn’t have “reasons” for things. I’m puzzled by this. Reasons can be assigned for a great many of the adaptions various species have evolved. Woodpeckers have evolved tough bills and long tongues because these allow them to exploit a fruitful food resource (insects in trees). Coloration allows certain species to blend with their environment, or mimic other species, or advertise their presence, etc., etc. Thousands of other examples can readily be cited. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430/60 "2011-08-13T04:40:16Z")
They retain mutations because they are incidentally beneficial, but there is no “reason” for getting the mutation in the first place. Evolution is not guided toward any goal. Evolution is a result, not a cause. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-fly/592430.md?page=4)