# Why can't 'we' secede from the Union \[continued\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-secede-from-the-union-continued/593195 "2011-08-18T17:08:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-secede-from-the-union-continued/593195/61 "2011-09-16T20:46:43Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Several states have tried to secede, you know. > > It did not go well. Including Texas, if I may add. Clearly, there is precedent for this in the US. The last time it happened, the President sent the US Army to beat the disobedient states into submission. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-secede-from-the-union-continued/593195/62 "2011-09-16T20:47:05Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > On behalf of the Great White North, we’d be happy to discuss the entry of northern border states, especially Maine and Vermont (a.k.a. Baja Quebec), as well as Alask. Most particularly we’d like to discuss toasty li’l Hawai’i. We would appreciate Hawai’i more than CONUS does, trust me. I think the Hawaiian splitters, such as they are, are looking to restore the Hawaiian throne and are not looking to throw off the American Yoke in exchange for a Canadian one. They’ll welcome any and all Canadian money though. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-secede-from-the-union-continued/593195/63 "2011-09-17T15:38:46Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Commander in Chief George Washington himself led the US Military that put down The Whiskey Rebellion in 1794. Actually, I think Washington was just along for the ride and didn’t actually command any troops, but the US Army took rebellions seriously. I’m not at all sure that rebellions are that easy to accomplish. The difference in the Whisky Rebellion from what I (perhaps poorly) attempted to define is that the WR was a bunch of pissed off individuals who needed to be dealt with. Even through the organization of their conventions the rebels never really had backing of political leadership in the states, even in Pennsylvania where things got hottest. What could easily have caused breakaways early in the life of the United States is some of the leaders of certain states, even those who signed the declaration and participated in the drafting of the Constitution, were to come out and say that ‘this isn’t working’. If Henry Lee of Virginia or George Matthews of Georgia (both Governors of states with a little muscle) at the time had sat down with their legislatures to petition for removal from the Union I think it might well have worked. There’s a HUGE difference between putting down some rioting yahoos who are tar and feathering your tax officials and putting down a group of lawfully elected officials who, presumably, have the backing of their citizens when they peacefully make the case that they should no longer be in the union. Especially during a time when the idea of the union is new and not really cemented in the common thought. Hell, that might still work today. At least there’s sort of a mechanism for it in the constitution. From Findlaw I find (ha!) an article that comments that, with permission, secession may well be possible. Unilateral secession is strictly out. But mutually agreed secession seems feasible. Good luck with it, but feasible. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-secede-from-the-union-continued/593195/64 "2011-09-17T15:42:42Z")
Oh, and here’s the Findlaw article: [Does the Constitution Allow Blue States to Secede?](http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20041124.html) Now that’s just stupid, of course. But it does allow a good overview of secession issues and the immediacy with which secessionist concerns and threats popped up following the ratification of the Constitution. Of particular note is how quickly Congress denied a petition by Pennsylvania representatives for abolition. Both GA and SC threatened to secede if any such thing happened and I think the early Congress thought it would A) happen and B) stick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-we-secede-from-the-union-continued/593195.md?page=3)